Ep36 Radical Acceptance

"But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me has not been ineffective."
~ 1 Corinthians 15:10

As humans living in a fallen world, we often feel the space between our hopes and reality, and in that space we find disappointment, frustration, and heartbreak. Our relationships, our families, our work are marked by this hardship. What do we do when we are so tempted to either deny reality or wallow in the difficulty?

In episode 36 of "This Whole Life," Kenna and Pat delve into the topic of radical acceptance, navigating the complexities and challenges of embracing this skill in everyday life - especially during the holiday season. They share personal stories and insights on practicing radical acceptance, emphasizing the importance of Acknowledging, Honoring, and Accepting reality in order to move forward in hope and joy. From dealing with difficult relationships to facing professional uncertainties, Kenna and Pat illustrate how radical acceptance can lead to emotional growth and newfound possibilities. Radical acceptance does NOT mean accepting sin or giving up our efforts to work for better relationships and situations. Rather, radical acceptance allows us to move forward with purpose by clarifying our starting point in the present moment.

Join us for this hopeful, real, and relevant conversation!

Chapters:
0:00: Introduction and Highs & Hards
13:50: Lightning Round: Hot Takes
25:29: Exploring Radical Acceptance
39:51: Real life example of radical acceptance
54:52: Challenge By Choice

Episode 36 Show Notes

Thank you for listening! Visit us online at thiswholelifepodcast.com, and send us an email with your thoughts, questions, or ideas.

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Interested in more faith-filled mental health resources? Check out the Martin Center for Integration

Music: "You're Not Alone" by Marie Miller. Used with permission.

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction and Highs & Hards
• 13:50 Lightning Round: Hot Takes
• 25:29 Exploring Radical Acceptance
• 39:51 Real life example of radical acceptance
• 54:52 Challenge By Choice

Transcript

Kenna Millea [00:00:00]:

The gift of radical acceptance is that it opens us up to creativity and to flexibility. Right? Those are dynamic ideas. Welcome to This Whole Life, a podcast for all of us seeking sanity and sanctity and a place to find joy and meaning through the integration of faith and mental health. I'm Kenna Millea, a licensed marriage and family therapist, and I'm with my husband, Pat Millea, a Catholic speaker, musician, and leader. We invite you to our kitchen table. Okay. Not literally, but but you're definitely invited into the conversations that we seem to keep having. Once the kids have scattered off to play and we're left doing the dishes, we're excited to share this podcast for educational purposes.

Kenna Millea [00:00:48]:

It is not intended as therapy or as a substitute for mental health care. So let's get talking about This Whole Life. Welcome back to This Whole Life, everyone. It is so, so, so good to be with you again. Woo. Good to be with you, my darling one. Good to be in this guest room full of presents that need to be wrapped and

Pat Millea [00:01:20]:

Surrounded by jobs. That need to be done.

Kenna Millea [00:01:24]:

That's not distracting at all.

Pat Millea [00:01:25]:

Sitting in the midst of your anxiety.

Kenna Millea [00:01:27]:

Welcome to our recording studio. But, really, welcome back. Welcome to episode 36 of This Whole Life where we are seeking sanity and sanctity. And my gosh, we're we're even doing it in the midst of Advent, like all that this holds for us. So it is good to be with you again, my darling, especially after these last couple episodes that have been, they have been big and impactful and, have really allowed us to feel even more connected to the listening community. Yep. It has been awesome to receive the feedback. Not awesome to know that so many understand the suffering that, you know, we've walked with as well.

Kenna Millea [00:02:08]:

But Right. Just to, I don't know, like, be together in this fight, like fighting this good fight. Mhmm. So thank you. Thank you for listening. If you have no idea what I'm talking about, you should probably pause and go check out episodes 34 and 35.

Pat Millea [00:02:22]:

They are terrific.

Kenna Millea [00:02:23]:

This one will still be here for you. And, Yeah. Just, you know, one small thing, is that, a lot of folks have said, you know, how can we support This Whole Life podcast, you know, this is an awesome ministry. It's been really enriching to my faith life. And, honestly, we've talked about it, and we we love the podcast because it is free. Like, it is, therapy is not free, but coming to This Whole Life can be free. I guess you have to have a a phone or device or something.

Pat Millea [00:02:55]:

True.

Kenna Millea [00:02:56]:

But instead of money, we would ask for prayer. And I don't mean that in, like, some cliche like, I'm Christian. That's what I'm supposed to say kind of way.

Pat Millea [00:03:05]:

Yeah. Yeah.

Kenna Millea [00:03:05]:

But, like, in this real world

Pat Millea [00:03:06]:

nice feelings for us.

Kenna Millea [00:03:07]:

No. No. No. No. But, like, especially after episodes 34 and 35, like, Just the awareness of, like, how much we need, like, the Holy Spirit to inspire us and God to protect us and our patron saints to pray for us. And so I mean that sincerely. Like, the gift that we would love is just when you think of it to offer a prayer for our family's protection, for our marriage's protection, and just for the flourishing of this ministry.

Pat Millea [00:03:31]:

So Yes, please.

Kenna Millea [00:03:32]:

That's all I got there.

Pat Millea [00:03:33]:

And that's Kenna's opinion. My Venmo will be in the show notes, and in the description at the bottom of the episode, I'm just kidding. I'm kidding. No. It's not. I just want your prayers just like Kenna does.

Kenna Millea [00:03:45]:

Well, highs and hards, that's usually what we do at this point. Right? I'm not usually I'm not usually in the driver's seat. That was like a weird intro. That's not our usual.

Pat Millea [00:03:54]:

Welcome to This Whole Life. Yeah.

Kenna Millea [00:03:56]:

Do you wanna go first? Or

Pat Millea [00:03:59]:

I went first last time. Why don't you go first?

Kenna Millea [00:04:01]:

And then Okay.

Pat Millea [00:04:02]:

I'll follow-up. Okay.

Kenna Millea [00:04:01]:

Well, I would say that my current hard, I have a a few things I could think about. I could rant about the busyness of this season, but, I don't know. That seems old. I would say, yes, that I just started with a new therapist, And, it's just it's been a good reminder, she's lovely, by the way, if any of you know my new therapist. She's great. And, my previous therapist had to take a medical leave, and so, you know, we parted on great terms, but she's not available to me anymore. And so when I knew that I needed to go back and process, you know, more stuff, this new person was introduced to me, And it's just it's just hard.

Kenna Millea [00:04:57]:

Like, it's just hard telling your story again, and, like, it's hard to there's so much there. I mean You're

Pat Millea [00:05:04]:

like starting over.

Kenna Millea [00:05:05]:

40 something years old. Yeah.

Pat Millea [00:05:07]:

Yeah. Yeah.

Kenna Millea [00:05:07]:

But then it's like it's like going it's like dating again. Like Yeah. Like, after a very long time of not dating again Right. Right. And and somebody, like, doesn't know you.

Pat Millea [00:05:16]:

And also 3 younger siblings.

Kenna Millea [00:05:18]:

Right. And you're there to, like, ask for really substantive help and support. And so it's important for them to understand where your your context and your Your history. So, anyway so it just is a hard, and it it also is really good. I remember in grad school, they would say to us, like, Be in therapy because you need to remember when you're a clinician, you need to remember what it's like to be in that other chair, and to remember the vulnerability, and to remember Just the the risk that it is to, like, yeah, be divulge yourself, self disclose, and and just Hope that this stranger I mean, she's lit we're 3 sessions in. She's, like, literally stranger to me. That she's going to receive me and receive me well and do well with what I offer her. So That is my heart lately.

Kenna Millea [00:06:03]:

It's just like, ugh. I'm tired, and yet it needs to be done. So Mhmm. That's my hard. My high is and this one kinda surprises me and delights me. Maybe that's why it's my high, but we have a Teenager in the house, ladies and gentlemen. We have a teenager. Our oldest is 13.

Kenna Millea [00:06:22]:

I'm also realizing that it means, like, I am I am old enough and presumably wise enough and mature enough to be the mother of a teenager.

Pat Millea [00:06:30]:

You know everything you need to know to have a teenager now. Yep.

Kenna Millea [00:06:34]:

It's just easy breezy from here, I'm pretty sure. But, but yeah. But it's so fun. Like, I mean, you know, In a sense, there's, like, this imaginary line that she supposedly crossed at 153 on November 28th. Yeah. Right. But but, really, like, The conversations have just been deeper, and I'm finding myself stepping back more. Dare I say, practicing differentiation and boundaries, and being able to just, like, delight in who she is.

Kenna Millea [00:07:04]:

And she's, like, really awesome. And, like, believe you me, there's A lot of eye rolling some days and a lot of, like, stank eyes, but but still, by and large, just so Lovely. And, just so grateful to have her as, like, the head of our cub pack. Yeah. So that is that is my high. Yep.

Pat Millea [00:07:24]:

That's

Kenna Millea [00:07:24]:

my highlight lately. Yep. Yeah. You. What's going on with you?

Pat Millea [00:07:28]:

I, would agree, actually. My my high is very similar. I we just had Thanksgiving with my side of the family down in the glorious state of Iowa, for those of you who have never been Or who have only driven through it Is

Kenna Millea [00:07:43]:

that the one by Wyoming?

Pat Millea [00:07:44]:

Or flown above it? Get out of my face. It's the potato one. Yeah. No. It's one of the ones in the middle with a lot of vowels. Alright? Just leave us alone. It was great and wonderful. And one of the things that I realized During Thanksgiving weekend was kinda like that same turning the page in a couple different ways of, like, the the the shift in the season of Our parenting journey, you know, we we have, our younger kids are now officially all out of diapers, Pretty much period.

Pat Millea [00:08:14]:

You know, we we changed diapers for, 13 years straight, basically, 12 years in a row, something like that. So, they're out of diapers. We went out of the house to, like, an event and didn't have to bring a stroller for the first time.

Kenna Millea [00:08:29]:

No one napped?

Pat Millea [00:08:30]:

Like, 12 years again, no one napped. Right. So we're turning the page on the younger end of, like, kids that are little more self sufficient and a little bit less dependent on, Like bodily functions for us, things like that. And on the top end, our older 2 kids are old enough now to start staying up a little bit later with the adults, And just like dipping their toe in the adult conversation pool, you know. And it was really fun to have them involved in some of the funny, like, goofy adult Talk after the little kids go to bed, and they thought it was just the best. And I I definitely I'm the oldest cousin pretty much on both sides of my extended family. So I definitely remember those ages of, like, being in the adult conversation, and I remember literally having Almost no idea what people were talking about 80% of the time. It just they were they were using names and jokes and, just all kinds of, like, adult type of conversation and goofy sarcasm and stuff that, like, did not register with me as a Early teenagers.

Pat Millea [00:09:33]:

So it was just really fun having them involved and having, like you said, deeper conversations with them over the past few months. It's been A lot of fun. So I I have claimed and hoped for years that I am built for teenagers, Not for toddlers. And there's a minor chance that we're coming into my wheelhouse right about now.

Kenna Millea [00:09:55]:

Just getting

Pat Millea [00:09:56]:

be great. Let's all hope that because if it gets worse from here, everyone's in bad shape starting with our children. God is good. Oh my goodness. Yeah. So, all kinds of goodness. The hard is that, you, my my beautiful and Very wise now. 41 year old bride had the great opportunity to go through your 1st mammogram a few weeks ago.

Pat Millea [00:10:26]:

You know you've arrived when

Kenna Millea [00:10:27]:

you got to this podcast. On the podcast today,

Pat Millea [00:10:29]:

guys? Surprise.

Kenna Millea [00:10:31]:

What is the title of this pod? And it

Pat Millea [00:10:32]:

was kind of a tricky week or So because you had to go back for, like, a follow-up appointment because there was something that showed up on the mammogram that was, like, irregular, and they wanted to rule out cancer and just see what was going on in there. You know? And, the good news and the really great blessing is that everything is Totally fine. They found some some totally normal things that are not tumors, and it's like see you next year for your next mammogram type situation, you know. But Between the initial mammogram and the follow-up, there was definitely that fear starting to set in for me and for you a little bit too of, like, This could be really bad. I mean, we have no idea. And, just that that very first inkling that comes with getting a little bit older of, like, Being reminded of our mortality Yes. Much more frequently than when I was, like, 17 years old, you know, and just having to, like, process all of the The logistical practical side of that, like, making sure that we are set up with our family for the day comes that you and I or I Pass away, and all the feelings that are associated within the meantime, whether we die tomorrow or in 50 years. Yeah.

Pat Millea [00:11:43]:

Mhmm. And also just a lot of, like, gratitude and a lot of, intercessory prayer as well for the folks that don't get Good responses and good, prognosis to those kinds of appointments. You know? Just If if I was feeling scared and anxious, I can't imagine what it's like for somebody to get the call about a malignant tumor or something like that. So, there are people All over the world, they get that kind of a call every day. So definitely ongoing love and prayers for people like that. Because even just, like, in the little, The it felt like a 5 minute glimpse of how difficult it was. I mean, that's just like a shred of what people are going through on a daily basis sometimes. You know?

Kenna Millea [00:12:26]:

Yeah. Yeah. No. I agree with you. Just that sense of solidarity of how vulnerable we are and how not in control of such big important things we Yep.

Pat Millea [00:12:35]:

Right. Absolutely. Exactly. Uh-huh.

Kenna Millea [00:12:37]:

Which is honestly maybe a really good intro to our topic today.

Pat Millea [00:12:42]:

Yeah. What are we talking about here?

Kenna Millea [00:12:44]:

Which is radical acceptance. And Yes. And I know this is someone said something the other day, And they were like, use that term all the time, and I was like, I do. And I don't know if I've ever actually explained what I mean when I say that just sprinkled into episodes. But we decided that, today, especially at, this if if you're listening to this in real time of when this Episode is published. It's around the holiday time.

Pat Millea [00:13:12]:

Or exactly 1 year from real time.

Kenna Millea [00:13:14]:

Either way. Yes. Yes. This works. But this is a time of year when radical acceptance is probably something that we are all, being given an opportunity to practice on the daily. And and maybe we're doing it in certain ways, and and it's an awareness of like, oh, that's what that is, and we can expound upon it and increase Our use of this skill, and there may be areas of life where we really, are being called forward to Live more in reality in radical acceptance. So that's what we're talking about tonight, my love.

Pat Millea [00:13:47]:

Exciting. Alright.

Kenna Millea [00:13:48]:

Welcome to the show.

Pat Millea [00:13:50]:

So I think before we get into the the important stuff, I think we need to just be goofy for a second because we're coming out of a couple episodes that were really beautiful, Super significant, massively important. But also, like, the the conversation, the topic was it could be a little bit heavy and a little bit, kind of like even burdensome at times for some folks. Radical acceptance is way more of a hopeful, joyful conversation, but I feel like it's just time to have a little bit of fun.

Kenna Millea [00:14:16]:

Okay.

Pat Millea [00:14:17]:

Call me if we're not gonna minister. I know. That's the way it goes. So here's the way it's gonna

Kenna Millea [00:14:21]:

work. Okay? In a while. Okay.

Pat Millea [00:14:22]:

Do a little, bit of a a lightning round type situation like we did a few, episodes ago with Wanda. Okay? The lightning round is this. I'm gonna just give you a a a noun, Person, place, thing, idea, something like that. And all you have to do, 30 seconds, you have to tell me your full and complete Opinion about that thing or person or idea or whatever. Okay? And you have to be totally honest. Okay? If you like it, you gotta tell us.

Kenna Millea [00:14:50]:

Okay?

Pat Millea [00:14:50]:

Even if it's a little bit embarrassing, if you don't like it, you gotta be real about it. Okay? And you, as a listener, can decide whether or not you think you could be friends with Kenna or I after we do this.

Kenna Millea [00:15:01]:

This is like lobbyist meets charades. Like, it's like a weird okay.

Pat Millea [00:15:06]:

Really what it is, it's it's my life, Because I have very strong opinions about totally meaningless things. Do. Yes. Your favorite thing about me.

Kenna Millea [00:15:14]:

But does this go does this go both ways? Wait. Am I I Yep.

Pat Millea [00:15:17]:

So we're gonna alternate. So you and I will take turns. I'll give you an item. You give me a 32nd opinion, and then you turn right back around. Give me an item or a thing or a person or whatever, and I'll do the same.

Kenna Millea [00:15:27]:

Place a thing. Okay.

Pat Millea [00:15:28]:

Alright.

Kenna Millea [00:15:28]:

Okay.

Pat Millea [00:15:28]:

You ready? Here we go.

Kenna Millea [00:15:30]:

I'm a little nervous. Number a timer and everything.

Pat Millea [00:15:32]:

One. I I didn't have a timer like I did with Wanda. No. We're just gonna be around 30 seconds. We'll be loosey goosey. Okay?

Kenna Millea [00:15:38]:

Okay.

Pat Millea [00:15:38]:

Here we go.

Kenna Millea [00:15:38]:

Okay.

Pat Millea [00:15:39]:

Item number 1, bread bowls.

Kenna Millea [00:15:42]:

Oh, gross. So soggy. Oh my goodness. Also so much bread. Like, give me more of the soup. Give me more of the protein, The vegetables, the warm goodness that's meant to be soupy and soft. Don't give me bread that's meant to be, like, fresh and crunchy and bouncy, And now it's, like, soggy and gross and heavy and no. No bread bowls.

Pat Millea [00:16:06]:

No no no situation. No soup that goes well with the bread bowl. Nothing.

Kenna Millea [00:16:11]:

No. Bread on the side, but

Pat Millea [00:16:12]:

don't it's crunchy on the outside.

Kenna Millea [00:16:14]:

Right? Saturate. No. It's not. Don't saturate my bread with the soup. Let me decide when I want to dip and how much I want to dip.

Pat Millea [00:16:23]:

So disagree with you, but that's fine.

Kenna Millea [00:16:24]:

Done with the bread bowl.

Pat Millea [00:16:25]:

Great. Alright.

Kenna Millea [00:16:27]:

Oh, my turn. Okay.

Pat Millea [00:16:27]:

Yep. Hit me.

Kenna Millea [00:16:28]:

Ready? Classical music.

Pat Millea [00:16:31]:

Oh yeah. I am a fan probably more than most. I used to, like, mock it as just, like, the old person boring music that, like, A teacher would play, and I just wanted to fall asleep, basically. But having played trumpet all the way through high school and college and, now having, like, a really deep appreciation for good music because I think there's a lot of bad music in the world. I really do love classical music. I don't put it on, like, on a daily basis just as, like, background music because I love it that much. But I love Good classical music that really is, like, complex and beautiful and meaningful in a significant way.

Kenna Millea [00:17:12]:

So Okay. Yeah. Alright.

Pat Millea [00:17:14]:

Up next, Sunday, like the day.

Kenna Millea [00:17:18]:

Okay. A lot of ambivalence, a lot of bittersweetness.

Pat Millea [00:17:21]:

This was my suspicion.

Kenna Millea [00:17:22]:

Love yes. And I think a lot of people probably share this. So love first of all, Lord's Day. Who doesn't love a Lord's Day? In our family, that's a lot about feasting, so we our kids get a particular cereal on Lord's Day. They get to have a treat. We all get to have a treat on Lord's Day. We make a big meal and brunch and all the things, But it's also the day of Sunday scaries and, like, looking back you know, looking ahead toward the week that's to come and making sure you feel prepared, And then, like, maybe lamenting all the things you thought you're gonna get done on Saturday, and you didn't get them done. And so now it's Sunday at 4:00.

Kenna Millea [00:17:56]:

And should you probably do those? Probably, yes. But you also just wanna relax. It's just so conflicting. That's the Lord's Day. I'm pretty sure that's how God conceptualized it. When he gave us the 7th day, this is he was like, someday, Kenna Rae Millea will talk about this day, and this is how she'll feel about it. This is what I hope she'll feel. I'm sure that's how he thought of it.

Pat Millea [00:18:16]:

Because the Lord rested on the Sabbath, and he

Kenna Millea [00:18:19]:

felt anxious about

Pat Millea [00:18:20]:

stressed about Monday too. Yeah. Oh my gosh.

Kenna Millea [00:18:26]:

Horseback riding.

Pat Millea [00:18:30]:

Okay. So I have ridden an actual horse one time. I think it was kind of a pony, And my feet literally dragged on the ground, and I embarrassed myself in front of my friends because I tried to make it go where I wanted it to go. And the guy was like, well, just kick it. I was like, I don't wanna kick a horse. I was in college, like, 20, 21, something like that. College. And I don't wanna kick the sides.

Pat Millea [00:18:51]:

It feels like I'm gonna hurt it. And I know it's not because that horse weighs 3 times more than I do.

Kenna Millea [00:18:55]:

If your feet were dragging, you might have.

Pat Millea [00:18:58]:

So I kicked it. And I swear to you, the horse turned around and looked at me like, seriously? Like, what? You have no idea what you're doing back there. So he just, like, went off course and went and started eating grass. And I was like, this is fine. I'll just hang out here for a little bit. Oh my gosh. And then I rode 2 donkeys, 1 with you in Santorini recently and 1 on a mission trip at, like, a horse rehab camp.

Pat Millea [00:19:19]:

And both of those were way better experiences. Long way of saying, I prefer donkeys to horses every time. I totally get why they rode a donkey to Bethlehem because a horse would have been a little bit pretentious and would have just wanted to do its own thing because the horse likes to be in charge. Yeah.

Kenna Millea [00:19:34]:

Oh my gosh. I did not expect that spirited of an answer from you. That was awesome.

Pat Millea [00:19:38]:

Strong opinions about horseback riding because I feel like a horse judged me one time. So, alright. Next up, U2, the band.

Kenna Millea [00:19:47]:

Okay. So all I think of when I think of U2 is that my freshman year of college, U2 came to Notre Dame's campus to perform a concert, and people lost their mind. I certainly, like, knew who the band was. Like, my dad, I think, was into U2, but, like, but, like, lost their minds, like, gave up eating for the rest of that semester to pay for their ticket to go to this concert. Like, be in the heart. I still don't totally know.

Pat Millea [00:20:12]:

In the heart. Right. Yes.

Kenna Millea [00:20:13]:

Yeah. I don't actually know that.

Pat Millea [00:20:14]:

Best equivalent in 2023 is like that was what Taylor

Kenna Millea [00:20:17]:

Swift

Pat Millea [00:20:17]:

was like today. Yeah. Yeah.

Kenna Millea [00:20:19]:

Sure. Sure. But just, like, crazy. And I don't know if it's because we were, like, in small town South Bend and, like, not a lot of good things happened there. But or, like, you know, big concerts came there. Big artists came there. But, but it was like, what? And then I just, like, didn't get it. Like, I never got into the music, and so then I just kind of, like, rejected the culture altogether.

Kenna Millea [00:20:40]:

Although, my understanding is that Bono is a philanthropist or something Yeah. Like that. So,

Pat Millea [00:20:45]:

Is Catholic, was Catholic at some point?

Kenna Millea [00:20:47]:

Even know Yeah. But yeah. So so, very, very minimal exposure to you to mainly just that 1 concert in the fall of 2020

Pat Millea [00:20:59]:

I want. And a little bit contrarian possibly?

Kenna Millea [00:20:59]:

Possibly. Possibly. Possibly. I may be known for that. Okay. Is this number 3 for you? Number 3.

Pat Millea [00:21:07]:

Yep.

Kenna Millea [00:21:08]:

The month of August.

Pat Millea [00:21:10]:

Oh, Yeah. I'm a fan. I I enjoy August. It's not it's, let me think. It's probably a top 5 month for sure. It might be top 3. Because let's think about it. So August, you get so it's still summer.

Pat Millea [00:21:28]:

So you still get great weather, especially here in Minnesota. My my condolences to you in Texas and Florida in August. But August for us is very nice still.

Kenna Millea [00:21:36]:

Lovely.

Pat Millea [00:21:37]:

You get the beginning of football at the end of August. You get the state fair here in Minnesota, and maybe some places around the country have state fairs that time of year too. You have a lot to look forward to. Like, the school year is kind of ramping up at the end of August, and it's fun. But the beginning of August, you still get some, like, vacations and stuff like that sprinkled in there. Like, Yeah. It's I mean, outside of probably December and maybe, like, April, like, whatever month Easter is in, it's probably Next or after that, top 3, top 4, probably a month.

Kenna Millea [00:22:09]:

Yeah. You didn't even mention that your namesake was born in that month. But Oh,

Pat Millea [00:22:13]:

that's true. Yes.

Kenna Millea [00:22:15]:

We won't tell our son.

Pat Millea [00:22:16]:

And a child. That's right. Know what's

Kenna Millea [00:22:18]:

that. Cool. Okay.

Pat Millea [00:22:19]:

Alright. Next up. Surprising. You ready? Okay. Self checkouts.

Kenna Millea [00:22:24]:

Oh, you know, I'm a fan. I this may come as a surprise to listeners, but I like to be in control. And so when

Pat Millea [00:22:33]:

knew those were the next words coming

Kenna Millea [00:22:38]:

I enjoy the self checkout because I work very hard to unload my cart, to load it in a particular order, and then to unload it in a particular order. And I always have some kind of something special, unique. Right? Like, oh, these things need to go to the office, and these things need to come home. These things need to go down into the Basement pantry, these things. Like and so I like to pack accordingly. It just makes things easier when I get home. Also, Speed, I value efficiency. And there's no one to get mad at, Maybe except for the guy in front of me who's taking too long to get out of the self checkout lane that I want to be in.

Kenna Millea [00:23:17]:

But, I get to control how am I easy like Sunday morning, or am I, like, whipping through here like I'm a woman on a mission? Usually the latter, unless you're the target dollar spot. But, but, yeah, self check I'm pro self checkouts. Mhmm. Mhmm. Yeah.

Pat Millea [00:23:34]:

I also love self checkouts, and I realized as you're saying that that I feel the same way in the line at self checkout as I do at TSA. Like, I I pride myself on being an expert at this process.

Kenna Millea [00:23:46]:

I got this.

Pat Millea [00:23:47]:

And so I stand in line, and I just it fall in sinful nature. I scan the people in front of me who are going through the self checkout or security at the airport, and I'll watch them and be like, Give me a break, fella. Like, really? You're not putting your your phone not out of your pocket? Really? Like exactly. Right. Or, like, somebody's standing at the front of the self checkout line, and there's a self checkout register open, but they don't see it. And I'm 5 people back, so I'm not gonna shout in the middle of target. Be like, hey. Hey.

Pat Millea [00:24:15]:

It's open. Anyway.

Kenna Millea [00:24:17]:

You don't do that. Your next topic is gin. Oh, gross. Gross. Your face was, like, confused. Like, you were like you're like, I dislike it so much. I had actually dumped the word and its meaning out of my brain.

Pat Millea [00:24:36]:

Process for a second because I thought you've mispronounced Jen like our friend. I was like, number 1.

Kenna Millea [00:24:42]:

Our old nanny?

Pat Millea [00:24:43]:

I am in favor of Jen. And number 2, that's not how you say her name. No. Okay. Got it. Gin, the the drink that tastes like Pine Sol. No. I do not approve.

Pat Millea [00:24:55]:

No. Thank you. I've had, like, 3 drinks of of like, with gin in my life that were not disgusting. And it's because either it was like a drink that was mixed well enough that it didn't taste like gin anymore, which I'm fine with then, or it was like an interesting enough type of gin that it didn't Totally tastes like just biting into a pine cone, but it just I couldn't no. Uh-uh.

Kenna Millea [00:25:18]:

Thank you for that. I'm not entirely certain the purpose of that was? That was really fun. Was it supposed to be that we were supposed to have fun? Because if that was the purpose, then I mission accomplished.

Pat Millea [00:25:26]:

That is always my purpose. Yes.

Kenna Millea [00:25:27]:

Oh, that's so true. That's so true. Okay. Well, you got us warmed up because it is real late on a weekday night. And, but we are here today

Kenna Millea [00:25:37]:

about radical acceptance. Mhmm. And you referenced earlier that, you know, when I suggested this topic for this episode that I really I I do see radical acceptance as this skill, and it is a skill. It needs to be practiced. It needs to be well honed, but it's one of hope. And so I just feel like it's so fitting for this season, both where we're at liturgically and scripturally of being focused on peace and hope, and living in the reality, this this odd reality. Right? We're waiting for for Jesus come again in the air, and we're celebrating that he came once in history, but that it is one of hope, and also a time when we gather with people who can sometimes Annoy us and sometimes challenge the ways that we are cultivating peace in our world, because our our worlds are colliding as we go to holiday gatherings and what have you. So it just it felt like a really practical thing to talk about today.

Pat Millea [00:26:44]:

Yeah. Yeah.

Kenna Millea [00:26:45]:

So, you know, when I think about it, I think of radical acceptance as as a key, like, really one of these foundational pieces to freedom and authenticity for an individual. Like, when I'm working with clients and I'm, listening to them describe what's maybe tripping them up in life, I'm listening for ways that that I hear, their acceptance of themselves. Right? And that's not the same thing as, like, being willing to, let myself remain in sinful habits or or to not have goals and aspirations, not at all, but an awareness of, like, this is the truth of where I'm at, and I'm, being compassionate about it and accepting of it. Mhmm. So, Yeah.

Pat Millea [00:27:29]:

Because I remember when when you started using that term around me and I was kinda learning what you meant by radical acceptance, I I had this Experience of, like, on one hand, I have I I'm guessing what that means based on connotations about those 2 words about in my own head. And on the other hand, I have no idea what you intend by that term. So can you, like, just define for us when you say radical acceptance, what does that look like? What does that mean?

Kenna Millea [00:27:55]:

Yeah. Absolutely. So this concept of radical acceptance is is quite simple. Right? I mean, we could be listening to this and Thinking like, oh, kinda this is not that profound. But I I think if we can consider that it has these 3 elements to it, we can see why it can be so freeing, and and so helpful in our life. So these 3 elements are acknowledge, Honor and accept. So I acknowledge whatever it is that's going on that isn't to my liking. So I acknowledge the fact that this relationship with my sister, for example, isn't where I want it to be.

Kenna Millea [00:28:35]:

I honor the fact that I don't like this, that this this isn't how I would have it. I you know, by honoring, I'm really validating myself. I'm giving myself that Confirmation that like, yeah. This isn't how we'd he we'd write the script, write the story. And then I accept, and also, This is the way it is. I accept that reality. I'm able to, therefore, be more free, be more flexible, and actually maybe consider what are some alternate routes around or through this issue. So when folks come to to me as a therapist, There's usually some element of stuckness in their life.

Kenna Millea [00:29:14]:

Right? Like, whether it's them individually, maybe there's a vocational question, or there's Grief that they feel like they should have moved through already and they aren't. Maybe it's a couple or a family that's stuck in an unhealthy or dissatisfying dynamic among themselves, but there's this stuckness. And what what I feel like I observe is People are are usually in 1 of 2 extremes or or they kind of oscillate between these 2 extremes. So on the one hand, Folks can lean toward being dismissive of this this painful reality, This thing that isn't let's go back to my sister's situation. This is this is my fictitious sister, by the way. But but this relationship that causes me a lot of Stress. Maybe there's, like, open hostility and conflict, let's even say, that that I dismiss that. I ignore that.

Kenna Millea [00:30:09]:

I invalidate it. I pretend it's not bugging me. I pretend it's not that bad. So so that's one side of it. That's the cutoff side. Mhmm. And then the other side that I witness is People really perseverating, like, being enmeshed with the issue so much that they're just they're in their heads about it, and they're thinking about, Well, how could it be different? Or how would I respond if she said this? Or how could I you know, what do I imagine I could do differently this time? Or, thinking about the past even, like, Maybe if I had said this, it would have put us on a different path or a different trajectory. And and the bottom line is, like, neither of those are real.

Kenna Millea [00:30:47]:

Neither of those things really let us live with the truth of what is, and we're not gonna find any satisfying steps forward if we're not living in the truth of what is. Because the truth is, number 1, the thing that really does exist, No matter how much you or someone outside of you tells you that this thing isn't a big deal, for you, it is. Like, for you, it is upsetting. So no sense in dismissing it and denying that reality. And then on the other hand, none of us have the power to do anything just through our thoughts. Right? Like, I can't I can't unthink history, by wishing it to be different, by replaying it in my mind. And so we've got to live in reality, which can be a really painful place. So I think this radical acceptance is a tool that helps us to just be, yeah, Really present to the truth of what's going on in our lives.

Pat Millea [00:31:44]:

So like engaging with reality, living in reality, that kind of 3 step process that you're talking about is All about living in the present moment and being able to be authentic in in the way that we live and kinda move forward with that. Right? Gotcha.

Kenna Millea [00:32:00]:

Yeah. Well so okay. So let me give you some examples of of ways that this might show up up in my thinking or in my, in my actions or in my relationships even.

Pat Millea [00:32:12]:

Right. And then

Kenna Millea [00:32:13]:

maybe you can get a sense of of what I mean here. So Mhmm.

Kenna Millea [00:32:15]:

thought maybe, that that could really benefit from radical acceptance are things like, this isn't fair. This shouldn't be happening. This isn't fair. This isn't right. And it's like, okay. I agree. And, also, It's happening. Like, whatever the thing is.

Kenna Millea [00:32:34]:

Like, it's the guy cutting you off, you getting a ticket when there was no sign posted that you shouldn't have parked there. Like, Whatever the situation is as small or as, you know, heaven forbid, like, some kind of medical diagnosis, some health crisis, like, yeah, In this broken, fallen, imperfect world, no. And kind of resisting, like pushing again. Like, this can't be happening. This isn't right. Like, It doesn't allow me to go, okay. So what do I wanna do next? Like, okay. The ticket is here.

Kenna Millea [00:33:05]:

I've I've got the ticket. What do I wanna do now? What steps do I wanna take next? So that's like a silly example, but But that's kind of what I mean about ways that we can think in a way that's contrary to being in reality, being accepting of of what is real and what is true.

Pat Millea [00:33:20]:

They're being fixated on the thing that is distressing and letting that affect Other situations in my life then. Like, it it's gonna affect my conversation with my wife when I get home, or it's gonna affect, how present I am to my kids when I'm Getting them ready for bed tonight, things like that. You know? Because I I just think of, like, the the sports metaphor that comes to mind for me is that there's a phrase that coaches will use sometimes, about they'll say, don't let, don't let that guy beat you twice in 1 play. And the idea is like so okay. So if you're a a defensive back and you're guarding a wide receiver, and if he runs Straight past you catches a touchdown pass right over your head. It's embarrassing, and he just flat out beats you. Right? That okay. That's annoying, and that's Upsetting.

Pat Millea [00:34:10]:

What you cannot do is then get down on yourself and fixate on that previous play, and then let him beat you immediately on the next play again. Right? Mhmm. So, like, just living in the moment, I can't change the past. So how am I gonna deal with this Present situation appropriately now, that kind of thing.

Kenna Millea [00:34:29]:

Yeah. Absolutely. So, you know, just to back up a minute. So radical acceptance comes out of DBT, which I don't know if you've ever talked about DBT before. Again, I passing. Yeah. Yeah. So so DBT stands for dialectical behavioral therapy.

Kenna Millea [00:34:45]:

And the dialectic is holding together 2 seeming contradictions, which Maybe we've talked about it before. We as Catholics are all star pros at this. Right? Like

Pat Millea [00:34:57]:

Masters. Yep.

Kenna Millea [00:34:57]:

Yes. So many things. Like, is that bread or is that Jesus's body and blood, soul, and divinity. Yep. All of the above. You know, is

Pat Millea [00:35:04]:

Well, technically, it used to be bread.

Kenna Millea [00:35:06]:

But, yes, since then. Okay. Does it appear as bread? Yep. She still looks Like that.

Pat Millea [00:35:10]:

Tastes like it.

Kenna Millea [00:35:11]:

Yeah. And also okay. You know, so so is Jesus human or is he divine? Yep. He's a 100% both. You know, just All these ways in which is like, how can that be? Because a 100% plus a 100% doesn't equal a 100%. Yep. It does in this situation. So so dialectical behavioral therapy is, developed for, well, was developed for those who have difficulty with really intense emotions and ways to help, bring together the intellect and the emotion, into what they call the wise mind.

Kenna Millea [00:35:45]:

And so, radical acceptance is one of the skills within that body of of therapy. And so if if you think about it in that context of, like yes. So so when that police officer tickets me for parking in a zone that doesn't, To my knowledge, have any signs posted that I can't be parked here, that that contradiction of, like, I did the right thing, And I somehow got a ticket and got a punishment. Like, that's the dialectic of, like, how do I live in both of these things at once? Mhmm. And how do I not Get stuck, in order that it continues to, yeah, kind of rule over me. So I wanna, like, really walk through steps. And then I actually thought of something you told me recently, Pat, that I wondered if we could if I could put you on the spot and use you as a guinea pig. So take a moment with that, and you can get warmed up Fun.

Kenna Millea [00:36:35]:

Even though you have no idea what I'm about to say. But, anyway, that's cool. So okay. So let's imagine the situation is that I have an older sister who I have difficulty getting along with, and we're going to, you know, be together at a family gathering in a couple weeks. And And the story is that we've had some conversations. I've been able to tell her, that I find it like, I find her a bit condescending in our interactions. Like, I I feel like she doesn't acknowledge that I am a grown up, and that I am a full fledged adult. Like, I still get put in the little sister role when we're together, especially with the larger family.

Kenna Millea [00:37:13]:

And so I've talked to her about it. Like, I've used all of my best. Like, I didn't use any horsemen, And I did a really great job of putting self disclosing and putting it on the fence post, but she has yet to, It seems really integrate my feedback into her behavior Mhmm. And into the way that she treats me. So, So first step is number 1, acknowledge. So I acknowledge that, like, this stinks. Like, this is a bummer that this is the way it is that, like, I have gone to the edge of my garden. I have done my very best to, like, put myself out there and be honest about how it is to be in a relationship, and it doesn't seem to be making a difference.

Kenna Millea [00:37:54]:

Like, I acknowledge that. That stinks. Secondly, I honor. So I I get why I tense up around her. Like, I I honor the reaction that I have because of this difficulty. I get why it's hard for me to want to, like, press in and be more Vulnerable with her and, like, share deeper things in my life. I feel like she might weaponize those and, you know, use those to lecture me. So I honor that.

Kenna Millea [00:38:27]:

And then I accept that. That I accept that at at least for now, that this is the truth of our relationship. That For now, we exist on the surface. And there's grief in that for sure, and that's part of the, Part of the acceptance of, like, oh, this is not what I thought it it was gonna be when we were little girls. Like, I thought we're gonna have a different relationship, but I I accept it, and it allows me to be grateful for what is. Like, it allows me to be like, man, I'm so glad that we We can be, you know, generally peaceable for the few days that we're all together at dad's house. That's the gift of radical acceptance. The the other way might be one of, like, I don't even go.

Kenna Millea [00:39:15]:

I don't engage. If I'm there, I give the cold shoulder. I don't interact. The other way could be open hostility, you know, having a fight that we've had 17 times and kind of, you know, Was it lather, rinse, repeat, whatever that thing is, like, reusing old conflict. Like Mhmm. But this is it's it's not a 100%. Right? It's not my ideal. And, also, I give myself the freedom.

Kenna Millea [00:39:43]:

I give myself, the flexibility to enjoy what is and to let go of what's not. Mhmm. Mhmm. Okay. So that's my idea. Now for you.

Pat Millea [00:39:55]:

Uh-oh.

Kenna Millea [00:39:56]:

I I overheard you sharing with someone the other day, about about something related to work and a situation where you were feeling well, I don't know exactly know the details, but You were feeling like some task is related to insurance claims. Mhmm. Okay. Was just, like, brand new, like, first time, dipping your toes into these waters. And you were sharing this, like, moment that you had of being like, okay. Like, I'm just gonna be real. I'm gonna be honest about the fact with this insurance guy

Pat Millea [00:40:33]:

Yeah.

Kenna Millea [00:40:33]:

Customer service guy, of like, I don't know what's going on. Like, I don't know what the issue is or don't know how to solve it or, you know, what have you. So, I'm I'm wondering if we can kind of talk through that and if you can kind of share with us what that was like for you because I think there's a lot of radical acceptance in there. Mhmm. I can help you find it.

Pat Millea [00:40:54]:

Oh, great.

Kenna Millea [00:40:56]:

If you're having trouble.

Pat Millea [00:40:58]:

This is gonna be radical, said the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. So yeah. So 30 second context, with the Martin Center for Integration that you and I cofounded that This Whole Life podcast is a part of, part of my job as director of formation and operations is Handling insurance billing, which is, shocker, something that the former youth minister did not learn how to do between planning retreats and lock ins. I did not learn about this whole world. So I've had to learn on the fly for, like, 18 months now. I'm finally in kind of a flow, but Rewind 18 months was not in a flow. And, routinely, maybe daily, a situation would come up involving insurance companies that would make me, a, Realize why I was always cynical about insurance companies.

Kenna Millea [00:41:52]:

Different episode. Different episode.

Pat Millea [00:41:54]:

Entirely justified, I'd I will I will say. And b, it made me consider the reality that, like, not only am I faced with problem that I don't know how to solve. I didn't even know enough to know yesterday that this Could be a problem that might exist in the world for anyone, including especially for myself. So now I've been This problem's in draw to my lap. I've had to been I I've had to learn what the problem is and why it's a problem in the first place. And now I'm in the unenviable situation of being on the phone with someone trying to ask for help with a problem that I don't understand.

Kenna Millea [00:42:33]:

That does sound hard.

Pat Millea [00:42:34]:

That's the context.

Kenna Millea [00:42:35]:

And so and so my my understanding as you were telling this story to someone else the other day was, like, There was a part of you, maybe a large part of you, that wanted to, deny how out of your depth you felt And

Kenna Millea [00:42:51]:

To play as if you knew what was up.

Pat Millea [00:42:55]:

I I it's a high priority in my life to not be an idiot. Okay. And to not be to not seem like an idiot to others. Yes.

Kenna Millea [00:43:04]:

Okay.

Pat Millea [00:43:04]:

So I love the I I mean, Partially prideful and partially just like human nature. I love to seem capable and intelligent and aware of How to fix things in my life. Right? So, yes, that's for that's for sure.

Kenna Millea [00:43:18]:

So this, like, pressed up right up on that that hot spot for you. Yep. And so This radical acceptance of, like, I can acknowledge that I I enjoy seeming capable, being competent, coming across as competent and assured and giving people a sense of security, important when you're in charge, especially. Yep. And so so that acknowledgment And then being able to honor that, like, I want to do this job well. I want to learn how to do this so that I can continue to do it because it will continue to be my job, and I will have to keep doing these kinds of untangling these glorious knots. Mhmm. And so accepting that that means getting real with Joe on, you know, whatever Medica customer support And saying like, Joe, you gotta walk me through this one more time because Yep.

Kenna Millea [00:44:08]:

This is new language for me and, you know, what have you. But but what I love about it is, like, a place of of resisting the reality that you didn't know what was going on yet Mhmm. Would have left you further in the dark. Right? It wouldn't have moved you toward The goal Sure. Of being competent. Yep. Like, it would have kept you in this place of like, okay. I fixed it that one time, but, like, I don't know how to do that again.

Kenna Millea [00:44:30]:

Like, I I don't understand enough. Like, he he just told me which buttons to push. Like, I was just a puppet, and his mouse was moving all over the screen. And, and so I I love that example because I think it's a really concrete, simple example of how radical acceptance gets us closer to what we actually want, which is a more free, Authentic, like, joyful life. Like, that is the point. And that maybe sounds so silly related to an insurance situation, but I think it's true in in small ways and in these bigger ones as well.

Pat Millea [00:45:01]:

It's striking to me that maybe radical acceptance is sounding to me All of a sudden, like, it's related to the virtue of humility a little bit too that, like especially in my work moment, there there was, like, The kind of classic cultural version of humility, you know, where I had to tell what's his face customer service rep for some insurance company on the phone. Like, Hey. Listen. You're gonna have to help me out here. It's my 1st time I've done this. You might as well be speaking Japanese. I have no idea what you just said. So can you walk me through it? I've I Very frequently felt like Michael Scott from The Office talking to Toby.

Pat Millea [00:45:35]:

Alright. Just tell it to me like I'm 10. You know? And then he explains it. And then Michael Scott's next words are, okay. Tell it to me like I'm 5. You know? So I felt like that a lot, which is, like, humility in the kind of, like, Cliche sense now of, like, I I am taking my humble pie, and I just need to tell you that I don't know what you're talking about. Right? But humility in the true virtue sense is all about being related to truth. It's about seeing things clearly, which is exactly what you're talking about with living reality.

Pat Millea [00:46:06]:

Right? That radical acceptance is about understanding the situation clearly, seeing it clearly, and being able to relate to it In reality.

Kenna Millea [00:46:15]:

I love that. Like, I love the way that you're helping us recognize, first of all, the the actual real definition of humility because first of all, I think that gets defined a lot in this world. It's like, oh, I just have to think of myself not that good. Yeah. Bag of junk. And it's like, no. Not at all, but seeing myself in in the light of truth. And I I love it because you're reminding us that the whole goal is to open up to more creativity, to more problem solving because the truth is not very often black and white.

Kenna Millea [00:46:46]:

Like, there are few things in this world that are black and white. There's a lot that's, like, open to Our, you know, creative stamp on things, how how we individually, uniquely want to address something. Like, the Lord gives us a lot of A freedom with that. He wants to see our creativity. He that that's part of how the the human person is alive. So I I love that that connection to humility and what humility actually is.

Pat Millea [00:47:11]:

Yeah. Yeah. So okay. So now the part of my brain where the devil's advocate Sits

Kenna Millea [00:47:17]:

Oh, my favorite part is right.

Pat Millea [00:47:18]:

Objections. Okay. K. So I so you can try to handle these objections, alright, in your best therapist self. Alright? Objection number 1. Radical accept acceptance at times over the course of the past few months, years, whatever it's been for me, Has sounded like you know what? It my my my least favorite phrase of the 21st century, "it is what it is."

Kenna Millea [00:47:40]:

Yeah. Yeah.

Pat Millea [00:47:41]:

You know what? It just it's the way it's gonna be. Like, I I don't I don't love the way I eat. I don't love the way this friendship is going. I don't love my relationship with my parents. I'm not happy with this one relationship with a child. I don't like my job. But you know what? Radical acceptance, it is what it is. I'm just gonna I'm gonna take it.

Pat Millea [00:48:03]:

It's fine.

Kenna Millea [00:48:04]:

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Okay. I love that. So so no. So radical acceptance is not giving up. It is not complacency.

Kenna Millea [00:48:12]:

It is not accepting the status quo when that status quo Does not give way to life and flourishing. So, again, I've been really, really consistent about saying the gift of radical acceptance is that it opens us up to creativity and to flexibility. Right? Those are dynamic ideas. Those are not stagnant, sitting there like a box of rocks kinds of ideas, like radical acceptance. We know that it's being used well. We know that it's being used appropriately when what it does is opens the doors to new possibilities and new ways of of growing and going from a place of stuckness. So if if I am stuck, that is an opportunity to apply radical acceptance. If I am if I am Stuck in a job where I feel undignified, maltreated, and disrespected.

Kenna Millea [00:49:03]:

Like, that is the opportunity to use radical acceptance to go, Okay. You know, what can I maybe I can't just quit on maybe I can't just flip a table and throw a bunch of obscenities and walk out? Like, that's that's not what I'm going to do. I can accept that. What can I do? Okay. Well, I do have to stay and continue to work here while also putting out resumes or, you know, having informational interviews outside of work hours, like, whatever that is. But I I often can't get there to those other ideas if I'm in a place of stuckness. So, no, Mythbuster. We are not here to just accept complacency.

Kenna Millea [00:49:39]:

I will never ever settle for that.

Pat Millea [00:49:41]:

So ironically, radical acceptance is a way of Actually, moving forward in a more, like, free and authentic and creative fashion than just, like, resting on my laurels and just Accepting things the way they are. Okay.

Kenna Millea [00:49:55]:

Got it. And even if that's just emotionally. Right? Like, it isn't always in a physical way. Like, we were talking about with a relationship earlier. Like, Sometimes it's just emotionally I move forward. I'm I'm no longer stuck on that resentment or that grudge, or, you know, kind of perseverating on that old fight, or that $10 that my brother owes me. Like, you know, whatever. Like like, I can emotionally move on as well.

Kenna Millea [00:50:18]:

It's not always an action. I should be clear.

Pat Millea [00:50:20]:

Interesting. Yeah. Okay. Alright. Objection number 2. K. Radical acceptance might sound like it's saying, you know, I I have this, like, Deeply broken sinful habit in my life.

Kenna Millea [00:50:37]:

Mhmm.

Pat Millea [00:50:37]:

And I accept it. It it's it's it's there. I radically accept. I honor it even. Yeah. And then I accept it. Or or this person that I am in a family with Or that I that is I love and is a good friend of mine. They are in a a habit of addiction or Ingrains sin, and I'm just gonna accept that.

Pat Millea [00:51:01]:

It's totally fine if they wanna live that way.

Kenna Millea [00:51:04]:

Yeah. Yeah.

Pat Millea [00:51:05]:

Yes or no?

Kenna Millea [00:51:05]:

Yeah. These are good ones. I don't know who you were consulting before this episode, but, they really gave you some good ones.

Pat Millea [00:51:11]:

You didn't hear? It's the the devil

Kenna Millea [00:51:13]:

that's the That's right. He sent you. Okay. So really, really good. No. Radical acceptance is not about condoning actions that are that are wrong or Unhealthy, dangerous even, hurtful to others or, you know, yet or to ourselves. And it's not about approving. So what it is though is perhaps so to go back to your example of maybe a family member who is, really entrenched in an addiction.

Kenna Millea [00:51:44]:

What radical acceptance allows me to do is to go, when when am I at the end of my fence? Right? Right? When I'm whenever I hit my fence post and I have exhausted all of the options that are appropriate for my role, my role as mom, my role As daughter, my role is, you know, who whatever I am in relation to the person with the addiction. And radical acceptance is going, okay. Like, I accept that I am out of tricks in my bag. And and, of course, as a Christian, I'm called to love them. Doesn't, We could say a whole lot of things about what what that means in in behavior and in fact. But my Disposition is to to continue to love them, to continue to will their good, and I accept that, I may be out of possibilities for how I can affect change in their life, Open their eyes, change their behavior, all those kinds of things. Mhmm. But it's not the same as condoning and approving.

Kenna Millea [00:52:48]:

Absolutely not.

Pat Millea [00:52:50]:

Gotcha. So radical rejection of sin, radical acceptance of my Person. Experience of the sin, Or the person who is committing the sin, even if that person is me, then I have to accept myself as a person while simultaneously rejecting The sin that I'm guilty of, that kind of a thing.

Kenna Millea [00:53:11]:

Yeah. I mean, I can think of, you know, folks that I've walked with that have done for for a whole lot of reasons, have done things that they never in their wildest nightmares would have imagined that they would do, that they've hurt people, that they love and they care about, yeah, have have made decisions that they're like, What was I thinking? And to radically accept, like, yeah, for for a whole host of reasons, Those were the choices I made. That was the path that I was on. And their road to healing Healing, you know, with the Lord, with themself, even in the relationship, the trust again of themselves, certainly with others outside of themselves, family and friends. That first step is this radical acceptance of yeah. This is the truth of of who I am. This is the truth of, This is the truth of the decision that I made, and I can I can accept that for all that that means? So yeah. It's it is a it is a skill that needs to be practiced, because it It you can't just put it on and and, you know, walk walk out with it right away.

Pat Millea [00:54:21]:

Mhmm.

Kenna Millea [00:54:22]:

It needs to be practiced. You need to take time. I would say journaling with it and part of our challenge by choice. I would also really encourage there's great resources out there, podcast, articles. We'll link some things in the show notes, books about radical acceptance as part of DBT. Even just googling it, honestly, And just reading up or watching a few videos on it, you know, you gotta be careful about your sources, but but that can be helpful just to get a sense of how to apply this.

Pat Millea [00:54:51]:

That's awesome. Yeah. Well, you already teased our challenge by choice.

Kenna Millea [00:54:54]:

Okay. Okay.

Pat Millea [00:54:55]:

Why don't we give the whole thing?

Kenna Millea [00:54:56]:

Alright. So I'll

Pat Millea [00:54:21]:

Don't keep the people waiting.

Kenna Millea [00:54:57]:

So in our challenge by choice you guys, I'm so sorry. I have a cold, and it's just really something special. Okay. So challenge by choice. Consider a situation that is upsetting to you. Maybe a relationship that's not in an ideal place, or just a circumstance that you find yourself in that you just are not pleased with. So come up with that situation, And then I would really encourage that this be done in a journal. I think it really benefits from being written by hand.

Kenna Millea [00:55:35]:

But writing your responses to the 3 aspects of radical acceptance, which again are acknowledge, honor, and accept, And, just spending some time thinking about, like, what would each of those 3 components need to involve related to my particular situation, and then see what creative new ideas or newfound motivation to act comes next. You know, whether it's forgiveness, which which is an act, whether it's just loosening the grip on resentment even, that would be an a really huge act. Whether it is taking some kind of action, and moving forward, action can even be pulling back. Maybe a recognition of like, woah. I was overfunctioning. I was really overstepping into someone else's garden, and I'm gonna pull back. Like, that can also come out of radical acceptance and and being aware of where our limits are. So that is our challenge by choice for this episode.

Pat Millea [00:56:42]:

Love it. Awesome. Alright. I am excited to acknowledge, honor, and accept You and all of the circumstances in my life.

Kenna Millea [00:56:51]:

Am I am I someone you need to radically accept?

Pat Millea [00:56:54]:

Sometimes. Yeah.

Kenna Millea [00:56:56]:

I guess.

Pat Millea [00:55:34]:

Not all the time. So you're easy to accept most of the time.

Kenna Millea [00:56:59]:

Not all the time. Not all the time. Well, would you please Pray for us and pray for our hearts so they might be more flexible.

Pat Millea [00:57:06]:

Happily. Yes. Let us pray. Lord Jesus, we thank you for your love, for your grace, For your work in our lives, Lord, you are you are good. You are You are our light and our life, and you are the reason that we have a desire for the good things that that you place in front of us, that you that you set our hearts on, that you place desires in us for the good things in our life. And, Lord, you also know that in this fallen world, there are so many things, so many situations that are imperfect and sometimes, even Desperately broken and painful. And, Lord, you know the pain in us that comes from those situations. So we ask for your blessing for Each of us, in those moments where we experience tension and anxiety and uncertainty and fear, Lord, help us to to live in reality.

Pat Millea [00:58:14]:

Help us to embrace humility, and we pray for an increase in the virtue of humility as well so that we can live in truth and that we can follow you in truth in the way that you're calling us forward to to radical love, To radical acceptance and to radical trust in you. We ask all this, Jesus, in your name. Amen.

Kenna Millea [00:58:35]:

Amen.

Pat Millea [00:58:14]:

Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit. Amen.

Kenna Millea [00:58:39]:

No trap.

Pat Millea [00:58:39]:

Well, that was a radical episode. Oh my gosh.

Kenna Millea [00:58:42]:

We need to get you out of the dad joke.

Pat Millea [00:58:45]:

Disagree. It's gonna be great.

Kenna Millea [00:58:46]:

New topic guys next time, I promise

Pat Millea [00:58:48]:

Thank you for listening to this whole life, friends. Please continue to send us great feedback, not just about The episodes that we just wrapped wrapped up in 34, 35, but about radical acceptance and everything else. Let us know what topics you wanna hear about, questions you have, thoughts about people that we should talk to and and invite on the show for great conversations? You can find us online at thiswholelifepodcast.com and on Instagram and Facebook at @thiswholelifepodcast. And, please share this episode with a friend that you radically accept Or anyone else that you love and care about and you think could benefit from this kind of a conversation. God bless you, friends. We will see you next time.

Kenna Millea [00:59:30]:

God bless you.

Pat Millea [00:59:37]:

This Whole Life is a production of the Martin Center For Integration. Visit us online at thiswholelifepodcast.com.

Kenna Millea [00:59:57]:

Oh, hey, Duolingo. Are you ready?