Ep45 Postpartum Mood Disorders w/ Dr. Lyndsey Day

“The loveliest masterpiece of the heart of God is the heart of a mother.”
~ St. Thérèse of Lisieux

The arrival of a child is an unspeakable gift and a grace for which to be thankful. But there can also be deeply painful moments during pregnancy and after the baby arrives. Millions of mothers know the hardship of postpartum depression, anxiety, distance from their spouse, disappointment, difficulty nursing, and the resulting shame. Is there anything we can do in the middle of such big, and sometimes surprising, challenges?

Dr. Lyndsey Day joins Kenna for a beautiful and deeply real conversation about the mental health challenges associated with pregnancy and the postpartum months. Dr. Day's faith allows her to journey with women as an OB-GYN in a way that is a ministry and a mission for the good of mothers and families. She and Kenna discuss the reasons that the postpartum period is so difficult, impactful options for offering healing & support to mothers, and the impossible expectations that women so often feel. Join us for an encouraging and consoling conversation that is hand-made for all mothers & those who love them!

Dr. Lyndsey Day received her Bachelor of Science degree in Biology with a minor in Chemistry from Saint Ambrose University and her medical degree from the University of Iowa. She completed her residency in Obstetrics and Gynecology at Loyola University Medical Center just outside of Chicago, Illinois. Dr. Day has a passion for women's healthcare and thoroughly enjoys providing obstetric and gynecologic care to women throughout all phases of life. Dr. Day loves to garden and hike and be with her family. Dr. Day's husband and 6 children fill her life with much joy, many trips to Costco, a fair amount of life experience, a small menagerie that the kids are constantly trying to add to (currently includes 4 cats and a golden retriever), and so very much love.

Episode 45 Show Notes

For more information on help for postpartum depression, including support groups, visit postpartumdepression.org

Get ready for our book study on The Love That Keeps Us Sane by Fr. Marc Foley, OCD: order your copy here

Chapters:
00:00: Introduction and Highs & Hards
11:24: OB-GYN medicine as a ministry
21:10: Dealing with disappointment in parenthood
26:47: Postpartum mood disorders
36:53: The place for medication & Giving yourself grace
50:24: Surrendering to God's will
53:58: Challenge By Choice

Questions for Reflection & Discussion:

1. What is one thing that stuck out to you from this episode?
2. Mothers, what was your pregnancy and postpartum experience like? What were the greatest joys and struggles?
3. What are some of the unf

Thank you for listening! Visit us online at thiswholelifepodcast.com, and send us an email with your thoughts, questions, or ideas.

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Interested in more faith-filled mental health resources? Check out the Martin Center for Integration

Music: "You're Not Alone" by Marie Miller. Used with permission.

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction and Highs & Hards
• 11:24 OB-GYN medicine as a ministry
• 21:10 Dealing with disappointment in parenthood
• 26:47 Postpartum mood disorders
• 36:53 The place for medication & Giving yourself grace
• 50:24 Surrendering to God's will
• 53:58 Challenge By Choice

Transcript

Dr. Lyndsey Day: [00:00:00] We see you, we want to help you. It's very important. We do not want mothers to be struggling. Um, so we are here for you and I promise you, if you tell your doctor this, you are not the only person that ever said that. Okay. This happens all day long. We see women all day long with these issues and we really are just here to help.

Nobody's going to think you're crazy. We want to help you so that you can be the best mom.

Kenna Millea: Welcome to This Whole Life. A podcast for all of us seeking sanity and sanctity and a place to find joy and meaning through the integration of faith and mental health. I'm Kenna Millea, a licensed marriage and family therapist, and I'm happy to bring you this podcast along with my husband, Pat Millea, a Catholic speaker, musician, and leader.

We invite you to our kitchen table. Okay, not literally, but you're definitely invited into the conversations that we seem to keep having once the kids have scattered off to [00:01:00] play and we're left doing the dishes. We're excited to share this podcast for educational purposes. It's not intended as therapy or as a substitute for mental health care, so let's get talking about This Whole Life.

Welcome back to This Whole Life. Thank you friends for joining us. Um, it's wonderful to be kicking off another episode with you and with my esteemed guest of the day, Dr. Lyndsey Day, um, obstetrician and gynecologist, uh, joining us from Iowa. Welcome Lyndsey. 

Dr. Lyndsey Day: Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

Kenna Millea: Yes. Well, um, between your busy practice and family life with six kids and a husband, uh, it's nothing short of a miracle that you were able to find this time to have this conversation. So [00:02:00] thank you in advance, um, for what you're offering us today. Absolutely. Yeah. Um, I was telling Lyndsey before we jumped on here that we are, we're trying something new today, listeners, and that is we are going to try, can This Whole Life accomplish the one take episode?

Um, so what this is going to mean is a lot. of, um, forgiveness maybe on your guys part, um, to roll with our flubs and our blunders and our, our misspeaking, um, but hopefully we're just witnessing like real life and the reality of being human, um, and a little more gentleness and mercy toward ourselves. Um, so, so we'll see, we'll see how this goes.

So thanks for being my guinea pig, Lyndsey. 

Dr. Lyndsey Day: Sure. 

Kenna Millea: Um, so Lyndsey, we often start off our episodes, um, just sharing a high and hard from life lately. And since you are the guest in the hot seat, I'm wondering if you'd be up for going first. 

Dr. Lyndsey Day: Absolutely. So, [00:03:00] um, like Kenna said, we have six kids and with the, um, addition of our most recent baby, he's six months old now.

Um, we decided we needed to do a little home renovation because we needed some additional bedrooms and a little bit more space. So we've been in the middle of this since January and it's getting a little long, but this is both my high and my heart. So my high is we're almost done. So this construction, we are moving in this weekend.

It's going to be so great and it's beautiful. And the hard is we're moving in this weekend, a million things everywhere. And as you can imagine, with six kids, I mean, I'm talking like things are shoved in nooks and crannies and nobody can find a single thing. And the house is a total disaster. 

Kenna Millea: You guys have been living in it while this renovation?

Dr. Lyndsey Day: We have.

Kenna Millea: Oh my gosh. Were you like missing your kitchen during this [00:04:00] time? 

Dr. Lyndsey Day: No, thank God. It's just the basement. So it's just the basement. The kitchen is fine. But you know, it's space. And I think you don't really realize how much, like I did not realize how much we played in the basement and toys and stuff are all down there until now we haven't had it.

And everyone is hanging out in the, basically now in the kitchen. Everything, I mean, games, books, puzzles, trucks, all the school stuff, all the normal life stuff. So it's just everyone could need, needs just a little bit more space. 

Kenna Millea: No, absolutely. We say that we have zones in our house, like the top floor, our second floor is the sleeping zone, sleeping and bathing.

Like. That happens up there. So if you don't have clothes on, you belong upstairs looking for a pair of pants. Probably, um, the middle zone is like the living zone. So that's where homework and cooking happens. Quiet conversations happen on the main floor and then play and being loud is in the basement.

And so I can't imagine that like you, like you said in the kitchen, I'm imagining like a high [00:05:00] schooler trying to do homework, a baby, you know, screaming for his dinner and then a toddler roaming his race cars. Yes. All in one space. 

Dr. Lyndsey Day: We also have a dog and four cats, which is a ridiculous number of cats. 

Kenna Millea: I think it depends on who you ask.

If you ask my oldest daughter, she'd say that's just the right amount. 

Dr. Lyndsey Day: Yes, that's what my kids say too. So yeah, it's just a lot of living things in this Less big space, but you know, so the high is it's beautiful. We're so excited and the people have done an amazing job. It's going to be really great for our family.

So mostly a high, a little bit of a hard. 

Kenna Millea: Oh my goodness. And are you going to be able to take time off to move or is it really all just going to happen this weekend? 

Dr. Lyndsey Day: Um, mostly it's all just going to happen this weekend. 

Kenna Millea: I maybe shouldn't have asked that. Maybe you're like, well, Kenna, now that you've planted the seed.

Dr. Lyndsey Day: I can't decide if I want my husband to just like take the kids. away for some time of the day so I can just do it myself or if I want help. I'm not really sure yet [00:06:00] what is going to be better for us. 

Kenna Millea: Yeah, maybe a little mixed bag. Like little column A, column B. Like, yeah, when you just can't handle it. Take themx to the playground.

Dr. Lyndsey Day: You should just go. You just need to go. 

Kenna Millea: Well, I pray you have great weather this weekend because you know the outdoors can feel like an extension of our homes And congratulations. That's so exciting. 

Dr. Lyndsey Day: Thank you. It is. 

Kenna Millea: Yeah, I hope it just really alleviates The needs of your family right now. 

Dr. Lyndsey Day: Thank you. 

Kenna Millea: So, um, well my i'll start with my hard Um, it, it is a really busy time for Pat and I at work and for us as a family.

Um, I had a conversation with our oldest four on the way to school the other day. And I just wanted not, not like to, like, rub it in their noses like, this is how hard mommy and daddy are working. But I just told Pat, like, this is an opportunity for them to understand real life, right? Like on a normal day, [00:07:00] the Milleas have no margin.

We talk about it as like margin, like no margin. Like you don't need someone to get sick. A lunchbox really, you just really don't want that to be forgotten. Like, you know, you don't want to run out of gas. Like there's just no wiggle room. Everything needs to go as planned and so then when you add in extra things like Pat and I have a business work trip All three of our girls birthdays are being celebrated on Saturday our three little girls because they're born within four days of each other So all their birthdays are on Saturday.

We have a son receiving First Communion, grandparents coming to town, you know, just all these things going on Some changes happening at work that's taking a lot of Pat's time. And so I just said to them Hey, this is not Mommy and daddy saying that we have permission to be like grizzly bears and just difficult to live with.

But I'm asking you in advance, just a little more charity, a little more gentleness, a little more sure, mom, I can do that a little more. [00:08:00] Proactive, preemptive checking in with me. Um, so just, but the hard of like, I don't know, as a mom, I, I often see my job as like smoothing the path for my kids. And so this new approach of like welcoming them into the bumpiness of it and being like, actually we call ourselves team Millea

so I'm like team Millea just like needs you guys to show up. More than ever before. Um, you are first string this week. Um, and so, um, yeah, I don't know. It's a little bit of a tension in me. Um, as a mom who like generally tries to pave a smooth path for my kids. And I'm like, no, like I'm going to share the reality of what it means to be a mom, to work, to be a wife, to take care of a house.

So that's new territory. And I have a lot of conflicted feelings about it. 

Dr. Lyndsey Day: It's really so great when you see the older ones show up, like they get it. It's like, you know, this things are clicking and the, when the big one [00:09:00] helps the little one, when someone's like, Hey mom, I got that. Yes. 

Kenna Millea: And the truth is like our little kids love being helped by the bigger ones.

Like there are times that they prefer it. I mean, they're so much more fun than me, so it makes sense. Um, but, but yeah, it is, it also makes Big family life feel more manageable. Um, when you see that like across the ages help. So that's my hard lately. Um, I would say the high, so we are in the Easter season, you know, Lyndsey

and, um, for me, Easter has always been. often had this tinge of sadness for me, because Lent is so full of structure and it's such a time of growth because we've got extra prayer and extra fasting and extra small groups. And you know, I have my accountability. gal pals and just like there's so much extra that happens in the spiritual life and in my, in my human formation.

And then Easter comes and we just like eat [00:10:00] chocolate and like watch movies and it's lovely for a time. But I'm like, I just, I feel like I'm like floating with like no tether. And so this year, um, In the middle of Lent, I was like, I'm going to be thoughtful about this. And I reached out to two of the women I lived with in grad school and said, what do you think of an Easter Bible study?

Like we're all, our, our dance card is full during Lent, like we don't need one more commitment in Lent, but Easter, like when a lot of these things end, these commitments, conceivably end. What do you think? And so we're studying the gospel of Mark, you know, as we're in the year B of the liturgical cycle and, um, it's just, it's such a source of life and it's fun to reconnect with these friends of mine from 20 years ago, almost 20 years ago.

Um, but also just to do something different in Easter. And as one of my colleagues said, you know, Easter is really just the beginning. We still have the Ascension and Pentecost. And, and [00:11:00] yeah, that just rang true for me. And so I feel like I'm just one step closer this year to like really understanding what my heart longs for in Easter.

So that has been a definite high. Yeah, 

Dr. Lyndsey Day: Great. 

Kenna Millea: And everything is better for me when I do it in community. I'm such an extrovert, like doing a Bible study with friends. I'm like, yeah, That'll motivate me. A little accountability to get the reading done. 

Dr. Lyndsey Day: Yeah. Yeah. 

Kenna Millea: Um, well, Lyndsey, I want to just take a moment to share who you are, um, with our listeners today.

Um, so Lyndsey, I have come to know you from Pat's hometown. Um, you and Pat grew up, um, side by side, uh, there in Iowa. Um, and you went on. to attend St. Ambrose University in Davenport, um, and then University of Iowa for med school and did your residency at Loyola in Chicago in obstetrics and gynecology.

And as I've referenced, you and your husband [00:12:00] live with your six kids in Iowa. Um, just to give readers a little bit of, yeah, context for who you are, but I wonder if you want to tell us a bit about family life for you, um, and also about work life and what kind of a practice you run and what that means day to day.

Dr. Lyndsey Day: Sure. So I, um, am back in my hometown, Davenport, Iowa. I grew up here. And, um, my husband is also from here. We went to Assumption, which is a Catholic school here in town. And we're just so happy to be back. We, um, have six kids. The youngest is six months. The oldest is 19. So we have basically every age kid, which is so much fun and so crazy and chaotic, but just such a gift.

And, um, really such a blessing to be able to experience kind of all of these things and also, um, kind of in a prolonged time, right? Like I don't have just babies and then no babies. Like I get all of the ages and they get to space out and I get to still experience all of it [00:13:00] throughout. Um, I am an OBGYN like you said.

I work at the group in Davenport, Iowa and we are a private practice. We're really busy. Um, we deliver, um, I don't know, somewhere around, 1500 deliveries a year. Oh my gosh. Which is kind of a lot for private practice. Um, we're like middle, you know, middle size. We're not an academic institution so we're just a group of people just taking care of ladies here in our town and um, we're so fortunate.

Um, I love what I do. I truly know that, um, My job is a calling from God and it is a gift from God to be able to do it, to take care of women through every phase of their life is such a gift. Um, and so yeah, I see kind of every age woman. I see little girls. I see all the way up to like a hundred year old ladies, everything in between.

Um, I love my gynecology part of my practice, helping women through these different phases of their lives. But I also [00:14:00] really love pregnancy and birth and postpartum. I love mothers. I love, um, Obviously, I love women. I love taking care of women. I think it is just the most amazing thing to get to walk with someone through their journey of motherhood when they're pregnant with their first baby and they're unsure and they don't really know what's going to happen, but they're so excited, you know, and then they have this baby and then walking with them as their motherhood journey continues to maybe they're having their second or their third baby and now they're confident and they know what to do.

You know, they have different questions, but they're still just as excited for this new person to join their family. It is such a gift to see. Families grow. So, um, my family, like I said, we have six kids, we're busy. Um, my work life balance is a little bit, you know, crazy and chaotic where I'm on call, I'm at the hospital, I'm doing surgery, I'm in the office and then, you know, home with the kids or just running all around all the time.

And, um, it's really fun. And. Sometimes [00:15:00] we are getting it right and sometimes, like you said, there's no margin and we just really need everybody to show up and, you know, some days seasons, you know, it's a season or sometimes in a good season and sometimes we're in a tight season and but all of it's really good.

Kenna Millea: Yeah, I think about the, the sports. A metaphor using sports, like, you know, Pat will say to me, Oh, that team isn't doing so well. They're in a rebuilding season. I think about that, like when we're trying to regroup or readjust, like we're in a rebuilding season. So I'm just going to need everyone else to drive the carpools.

Like I'm just like, please don't expect much from the Milleas right now. We're rebuilding. Trying to get a handle on things. Um, as you were talking, Lyndsey, and you were talking about the love you have for their patients, I was thinking about, um, the OB that has delivered most of our kids and, um, saw me through my first four pregnancies with our, um, [00:16:00] Um, and then, um, my fifth pregnancy was our identical twins and because she, she's actually family practice and, um, doesn't perform surgeries, um, she said, I need to refer you out to an OB GYN in the high likelihood, you know, that, that this would end in a C section.

And so referred me to another doc within the clinic. And I just remember that phone call, um, with her and crying to her that she wasn't going to be my doctor. And I said to her. You, in my eyes, you have a cape on under your scrubs. And when you come in, like, it's just, you are a source of comfort and, and assurance.

And so when you said about like, there's some more, you know, they're more confident when they have their second and third baby. Like, I just think of like, There's so many people in my world in my village, um, who I borrow, you know, their confidence. Like I really, I lean on them and that's part of what helps me feel like I can get through it.

It's not because I think I'm going to do it myself, [00:17:00] but it's because I'm like, you got my back. Like you got me. And so I just think about how much you must be that to so many women, um, that, yeah. But I remember her being like, But is that doctor gonna know, you know, XYZ thing about me when I'm in, like, you know me so well.

Yes, yes. And then I went on to have another one and she got to deliver that one. So she was like, yeah, she's like, we could have visited. You didn't have to go through all this to, you know, have me back here. But no, it's great. Um, so today, you know, Lyndsey, when you and I had kind of a preliminary chat, we identified like 15 things that we could talk about it just in general, Pat and I were like, we just want Lyndsey Day on the podcast.

She can talk about, you know, how she takes her coffee. I don't really care. But, um, we just knew that your, your sense of call as you've talked about and this role that you have as a mom, as a wife, um, and in your community as a leader in the medical field, like that, that was just something we wanted to share with listeners, but we landed on talking about postpartum [00:18:00] and postpartum mood, um, disorders and experiences of moms. And I'm actually going to maybe throw a curveball at you, Lyndsey, but also dads. This is a new thing that I'm understanding, um, are the changes that, that men go through. And so maybe you can speak to that more, maybe anecdotally or um, you know, things you've heard from patients or what have you about their, their partners, but that's what we're honing in on today. And um, maybe I could start with this question or this impression that I have, we'll say it that way. This impression that I have that there's a lot of stigma and a lot of shame associated with women having a baby and experiencing maybe anxiety, depression, obsessions and compulsions, um, maybe psychosis even in some severe cases. But if we could just start there and if you could just share your own perspective on why you think that is, um, and then [00:19:00] we can maybe get into some of the finer details of, of the diagnosis and what have you.

Dr. Lyndsey Day: Sure, absolutely. So, um, I think, well, first of all, like you said, there is a lot of stigma and I think part of it, I mean, we could, this could be a whole other podcast, but there's a whole, there's a whole lot of expectation. I should be this, I should be that, I should do this. And I think a lot of it comes from social media.

You know, moms are being fed this, um, perception, like I should be having this perfectly clean house and I should have this perfectly. Perfect baby who never cries and I should look like a million bucks and have my everything together and be making homemade meals for my family and doing all these things.

This is not reality. We know this. We've been there. But you know, new moms, maybe they haven't had a baby before. Maybe they don't have a whole lot of support. There's like so many different circumstances and situations that, that people are living in and bringing babies into the world and, um, that are not that picture perfect [00:20:00] thing that you see on Instagram.

And I think that causes a whole lot of internalization, a lot of shame, like you talked about, um, a lot of worry, a lot of anxiety, and then I think too, even without the social media part, just. People seeing their friends, people seeing all this stuff, people don't talk about their struggle. They don't talk about, gosh, you know what, I'm really, I'm not okay.

And so other people don't know that. I see this in so many different parts of motherhood, so many different parts of new mom. Breastfeeding, you know, even labor, these types of things. People don't talk about, gosh, you know what, this is not an easy thing to do. Um, And if you don't talk about it, then you think if you're the one that's struggling, you're the only one that ever struggled.

You're the only one that ever had a hard time feeding your baby. You're the only one that ever felt like nervous about, um, am I doing the right thing? Am I okay? Is my baby okay? And if you don't talk about it, then you don't know. And so I think there is, like you said, a whole lot of stigma, a whole lot of, um, [00:21:00] Missed communication that could happen or, um, more education, knowledge, you know, Sharing of experiences that could help make this better for a lot of people.

Kenna Millea: Well, and something you said struck me. Um, number one, that there's also like, I don't know, maybe the shame around admitting that it isn't as you expected it to be, you know, like it isn't all rainbows and bunnies and just you smelling your sweet little baby and that it's just all wonderful. Like, so I think even that, like.

I think there were moments in, in motherhood, and it wasn't just with my first child, it was with subsequent babies too that like there was this like reconciling myself with reality, as you said, and being like, is it okay for me to admit that this isn't like totally fulfilling me and completing all of my dreams and fantasies of what it means to be a woman and what it means to be wife and, you know, so I don't know if you've had experiences like that or have talked to patients [00:22:00] about that.

Dr. Lyndsey Day: Oh, absolutely. And then also, um, the, the thought that, or the knowledge, I guess, that this is fleeting and this is fast. And so you're worried like this is hard right now and I'm really struggling. And also my babies are growing up really fast and then I'm going to miss this. And I'm missing this time right now.

And then they're going to be gone. And then I'm going to wish they were babies, but I didn't enjoy this phase. And if I don't enjoy it enough, then it's going to be gone. And I'm going to miss the thing. And it's just this whole cycle of worry, you know? Um, And I do think that maybe, too, as when you have other kids, then you realize, well, one, you realize, okay, this is gonna be okay, like, I know this hard time isn't gonna last forever, which is a beautiful perspective to have, and I think that's a gift of having multiple kids, like, you realize, okay, we're gonna, this is a season, this is a hard season, it's a rebuilding season, and we're gonna get to the other side of it, and So that's a beautiful perspective, but then also comes with that [00:23:00] perspective of, Oh boy, this is so fast.

And I do know like, gosh, I don't even remember when that kid did that thing because I was so distracted by these other things I didn't even notice. Um, and so then there's the worry of the, I'm going to miss it. Um, it's a lot of worries in a mom's life, right? Yeah. 

Kenna Millea: Yeah. Yeah. Well, the, the like in almost instantaneous responsibility that multiplies when you give birth to a child or when you bring home a baby that you've adopted or a child that you've adopted. Like suddenly it's not just your soul, you know, right? Like you've got your spouse, you've got your partner, but they're a grown up. Like, like they can fend for themselves, right?

Like if hungry, you know how to make a peanut butter sandwich. Like, like, um, but to, um, to feel just like, so incredibly responsible for this very dependent being that you love more than you ever thought you could love another. Um, that is heavy. It's weighty. Um, 

Dr. Lyndsey Day: I tell [00:24:00] people, people all the time that, you know, when they come in, we always talk about mood, always talking about mood.

Um, And I always tell people, you know, it is normal to have some degree of mood changes after this big life event, you know, you know, like in, you know, in the mental health world, there's like big life events and life stressors and you can get scores for all of these types of things. But, um, having a baby is a big life event.

It changes everything. Everything about your life, it changes your relationship, you know, for the good and for the hard, right? Like it's, but it's a change. It changes your view of yourself, your view of your partner, um, the structure of your day, the structure of your sleep, the structure of your eating, um, your responsibilities, like you said, just workload at the home, like all of these things change.

So it, You know, we say 50 to 75 percent of people have some degree of some mood changes. Now, not all of it is postpartum depression or psychosis, of course, but some degree of mood changes after [00:25:00] they have a baby and that's normal. And I always say, I'm shocked it's not a hundred percent because you're not eating, you're not sleeping.

You're solely responsible for keeping this human being alive. Um, Of course, there's going to be some degree of mood changes and accommodations that need to happen in this time period. 

Kenna Millea: Yeah. Well, and I appreciated that you brought up, you know, the, the presence of social media and the internet in our lives and, and what a source of energy angst that can become, I also think it's this double edged sword because the internet can be a great place to get answers to quick questions and to get information and support. And I do remember, um, my, my doc, you know, often I'd come in with these questions and she'd go sounds like you've been Googling again, like, you know, just like she could just see right through me and she'd be like, get off the Google, like, you know, just like, you're good.

You're good. Um, and so, yeah, it's, it's this tricky thing of like how awesome that we have [00:26:00] more resources, more data than for someone to read something like 50 to 75 percent of women experience a mood change on the internet could really be permission giving to her. Yeah. of, okay, I'm going to mention this to my doc at my, you know, two, at the two week checkup.

Um, or I'm going to, you know, call a friend or mention this to my mom or whatever. Like, so on the one hand, such a positive, and we all know we can enumerate the ways that it also can be another voice in our head, um, that maybe holds a shaming shooting kind of. Um, so, yeah, well, I wonder then, you know, you kind of, you brought up that statistic 50 to 75 percent of postpartum moms experience some kind of mood change.

Can we talk about, um, what does constitute a concerning postpartum mood change? Um, what's the distinction here? 

Dr. Lyndsey Day: Certainly. So, you know, some [00:27:00] of that is normal, like we talked about. Things that would be something that we would really need some extra eyes, some extra thought about, some extra attention to, um, and this happens about 15 to 20 percent of the time, um, that people actually get depression.

Um, postpartum depression, it can even start during pregnancy. Um, where things are just becoming heavier than not heavy. So that's kind of how I always gauge it. Do you have more bad days than good days? Are you feeling more worried more of the time or less of the time? Like obviously some degree of concern about your baby's health and safety is normal.

You're a mom. You have to be worried about those things, but is this consuming every waking hour? Do you have intrusive thoughts? Things that are bothersome to you, you know, it's negatively affecting you. You can't get out of bed in the morning. You don't have any joy. You're having a hard time eating, having a hard time focusing.

Things like this, where it's actually negatively affecting your life. [00:28:00] Those would be things that really need addressing and we can help with. And I think that's the most important thing to know, because a lot of people feel maybe really isolated there on this Island. I feel really bad and there's nothing anybody can do to help me.

That's not true. Yeah. There's lots and lots of things to be done. It's very important to shine some light there because we see you. We want to help you. It's very important. We do not want mothers to be struggling. Um, so we are here for you and I promise you if you tell your doctor this, you are not the only person that ever said that.

Okay, this happens all day long. We see women all day long with these issues and we really are just here to help. Nobody is going to think you're crazy. Nobody is going to take your baby away. I think people worry about these types of things too. We want to help you so that you can be the best mom. 

Kenna Millea: I mean, I think that is worth underscoring that, that, you know, medical professionals, mental health professionals know that the best thing is for baby to stay with mom.

And so what [00:29:00] we want to do is help stabilize mom, dad, the system so that you all can be a flourishing family together. 

Dr. Lyndsey Day: Yeah, 

Kenna Millea: but sometimes we just need supports Sometimes we just need extra bolsters To get to that place. So you kind of described postpartum depression Lyndsey Are there different features in postpartum anxiety that you're looking for?

Dr. Lyndsey Day: Yes, it's really interesting. And I think there's, there's more, um, you know, in medicine and healthcare, there's always more work to be done, right? Like, there's always something to be learned. And I think we probably only know a very small portion of, um, The information to be known. And so we've always got to be looking.

We've always got to be searching. But I do think we're seeing more now. Postpartum depression often has an anxiety component to it. It's not necessarily the depression you think of where you're having a hard time getting out of bed. You're having a hard time being motivated. That certainly does exist.

And, and there is a component postpartum time period. But more often than not, [00:30:00] I have moms come to me and they say, Yeah. I'm just so anxious. I'm so worried. I'm having thoughts about things that could harm my baby. And not that the mom isn't necessarily thinking about harming her baby, but I had, I had this beautiful patient who I learned a lot from, and I'm still learning from, um, who came and saw me one day and she said, Came to see you because my sister in law told me that I needed to come see you.

She said, I wasn't really thinking I was having a problem. I was just really worried about my baby. And I was really worried. I put my baby down to do tummy time on the floor and I had to walk over here. And I had a thought that what if somehow I fall and the coffee table flips over and lands on the baby and the baby gets hurt.

And she said, my sister in law told me that that was a really, um, outrageous thought to have and I, the patient wasn't really thinking that was outrageous. She was really thinking like that, gosh, that horrible thing could happen. And so she came to talk to me, had some really good conversations and actually that made me really think about some of my own experiences because [00:31:00] I have had similar thoughts sometimes, you know, like gosh, what would happen if I You know, turned around and something, you know, if you're cooking and you have boiling water, and even though the baby's maybe all the way on the other side of the room, and oh my gosh, what would happen if I accidentally slipped in the boiling water, you know, fell on the baby?

These things happen in theory maybe more often than they happen in real life, but these thoughts that people have about anxiety or worries about things that could happen to their child, I think there's some foundation of that that is a normal motherhood instinct, right? We're trying to keep our babies safe.

But postpartum anxiety can kind of take over. And if it's, if it's, um, all you're thinking about, or you're having these anxiety thoughts, worrying, worrying, you can't sleep, you're worrying about your baby safety. These are things that we need to address. These are things that we need to, um, look at because, um, that is obviously going to really negatively affect your life and your day.

If you're constantly worried about those things, you're never going to be able to relax. [00:32:00] 

Kenna Millea: So when you say, you know, for the, the 15 to 20 percent perhaps where, um, it is on that level of diagnosable, you know, mood disorder, um, when you say we can help, are you thinking medication? Are you thinking education?

Like what kinds of ways do you see intervention? 

Dr. Lyndsey Day: I think for these types of things, it really is, um, Tailored to the person. There's, there are people who medications are absolutely the right thing to do and who, and medications absolutely help. There are people who really need counseling. So sometimes we just need a different perspective or we just need a different tool to help us in those moments when maybe an intrusive thought comes in or you're feeling anxious.

How can I have a different perspective to use this feeling that I'm having to be more productive or how can I have a tool Tell me maybe focus on my breathing or something like this. Like counseling is so good for so many reasons. [00:33:00] Um, and sometimes it's a combination of things. So sometimes I tell mama's like, okay.

We can do medication, we can do counseling, we can do both. Um, sometimes adding another thing when someone's already feeling really overwhelmed. And then I say, okay, you know what you need to do? You need to go talk to somebody for an hour every week. And you just told me how stressed you were. And there's zero extra minutes in any part of your life.

And then 

Kenna Millea: also no money, by the way, 

Dr. Lyndsey Day: no money, nobody to babysit, you know, like, and then I'm telling you, go spend this hour doing this thing. You're like, Oh, that's never going to happen. Yeah. So that's not actually that helpful. And so in that situation, you know, sometimes maybe we try medication and then they just come to see me every so often we talk about things, but then there's support groups.

And this is one place that the internet can come into play. Because maybe a lot of communities don't have a whole lot of support groups, but you can always find a support group on the Internet and a lot of these support groups are meeting virtually or [00:34:00] even just like online. A website that has a collection of people where you can post.

And then there's other moms that say, gosh, you know, I felt the same way. I had the same thing happen to me. There is a lot of power and being seen, and then also being included in a group of people that have also had the same experience. Um, I, I read this, um, article once, and it was a story about someone who was struggling with, in this particular story, they were struggling with grief.

And it was like, they were in this pit and they're down at the bottom of this pit and there's like no way out. And so then somebody would come to the top of the pit, like, Hey, how you doing down there? You want to talk about it? And the person's like, well, I know I really would just like, want to get out of the pit and then the person left.

And then this other person came by and was like throwing stuff down, like, Hey, here's some like resources for you. Like when you're like down in the pit, the person's like, Hey, I just would prefer to like get out of the pit. I don't really want to like stay here. Um, and then somebody else came along and jumped into the pit with a person.

And the person was like, [00:35:00] What are you doing? Like, why are you, now we're both stuck in this pit. And the person's like, no, I've been here before. I know the way out. I'm going to sit with you here until you're ready to get out, and then I'm going to show you the way. And I think that's a really beautiful metaphor for thinking about postpartum depression.

When we have somebody that's been there before, I can sit with you in it, and then, when you're ready, And show you the way out and that is where support groups, community, um, friends, family, wherever you find your support, that's where it comes in. And, um, I think a faith community is a great, you know, opportunity for that as well, um, to shine some light in these areas and, and just walk with women.

And their struggle. 

Kenna Millea: Yeah. No, I, again, I'm thinking of my, of my doc and it must have been after our fourth. Um, cause my doctor also has four children and, and she just said to me like, Kenna it might be a Chinette season. And I was like, what? And she's like [00:36:00] paper plates girl. Like, like this might be a time to, um, to live off of paper plates and, and, and maybe It felt so relieving, right?

Paper plates maybe weren't the answer for me specifically, but like, but to, to have someone like, just like you said, be validating, um, and acknowledge, like, I get where you're at and there's nothing wrong with you. Um, this isn't your fault. It's not because you're not doing something as well as you should have been.

Um, And so I have often said to friends, like, is it a Chinette season? You know? And then I just share with them this story of like, I just, I'm trying to be someone who's giving you the permission to consider what is it that's going to make life just 5 percent more manageable or, um, you know, right now. Um, I also, I thought, honestly, you were going with the The, with the pit metaphor, um, I talk about the pit with medication and the way that I'll talk about it is, you know, so, so if what [00:37:00] I'm experiencing, let's say the postpartum depression, if what I'm experiencing feels like I'm down in a pit and, and then I'm going to go to therapy and they want me to have these tools and try these things and use these skills, but I need to be at ground level to use them, then medication can be that thing that lifts me up to ground level and.

And actually lets me engage the skills and tools because a lot of people understandably are like, I don't want to be a zombie or I don't want to be not myself. And I'm like, no, no, no, that's not the idea. The idea is actually that, that you can engage the things that, that are you, that are authentically you.

Um, the, this lack of life, this lack of energy, this immense worry, like I don't actually believe that is you. Um, so anyway, the pit can be used a lot of ways, but, 

Dr. Lyndsey Day: !And, oh, and what you, one thing you were just saying about the concern about how medication would make you feel a lot of women obviously are nursing.

And so they're breastfeeding. They're worried about how's the medication going to affect my baby. Same thing during [00:38:00] pregnancy. Sometimes, like I talked about before, some women start to actually feel depression during their pregnancy and then they get concerned because they don't want to expose their baby to a medication.

There are many, many, many safe medications we can use in both pregnancy and in the postpartum time period for anxiety and depression. So you do not have to gut this one out. This isn't something that, um, You have to wait till you're done breastfeeding or stop your breastfeeding journey just to get treated.

Absolutely not. Like, this is something that we can manage. There was another thing, um, I thought about when we were talking, um, just kind of about the should haves and that I should do this. Um, a lot of women have struggled to get pregnant. They've struggled. They've waited for these babies. They've, Just been in this desert for a long time and now this person that they've been waiting for for maybe years and years is now here and oh boy here comes a postpartum depression and they feel even extra bad because now they've waited for this baby for so long and [00:39:00] this baby is here and I should be so happy and I'm not and what's going on?

Obviously, they're happy to be here. They love their baby, but they're they're struggling with this depression and I see that a lot too. Um, And I think that's a really important place to check in with people, especially when people have struggled with infertility for years and years. I always keep an extra eye on them after they have their babies, because they're That's a whole lot of things going on.

Kenna Millea: Yeah. Well, and I just think about perhaps the pressure that they were under to conceive. Um, and so then the buildup, um, now of having, bringing that baby home. Um, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Thanks for naming that. Um, I'm thinking about, okay, so. know, 50 to 75 percent of women experience a mood shift, 15 to 20%, um, you know, medication, therapy could really be what's needed and helpful.

I'm wondering about those others where it's, it's the shift that creates a [00:40:00] burden. Um, but maybe isn't to the level of, you know, needing medication, um, maybe isn't even to the level of needing to go to therapy weekly. Um, what are things that you are talking to these moms about, um, ways that they can maybe resources that are easily available to them that they could be reaching for that could help to, um, Address the mood lift the mood.

Dr. Lyndsey Day: Yes. So super good. And it's very interesting. Um, when you look at these, um, types of shifts among different cultures, and maybe around different areas of the world where maybe there's different support for women and mothers and families. There are places that are higher rates, America, there are places that have lower rates, places where, you know, there's rooming in of the mother and the baby for 30 or 60 days.

There's not a whole lot of expectations to do anything else other than take [00:41:00] care of yourself and your newborn. And so, and those, and so obviously we can't change our. Maternity leave policy in this country yet, though, hopefully someday. I don't know. Um, but so what we need to do is we need to give ourselves a whole lot of grace.

So we're in that, you know, we're in that. Place like you said where maybe we don't need medication and counseling, but we're still struggling like this is still a hard place to be and So a whole lot of grace you gotta take some time for yourself. Take a bath. Go for a walk I know it's silly because a lot of times it's really tight to sleep and you're not sleeping because you have this newborn baby But take a nap.

I always tell people you've got to just give yourself a grace Okay, this is not a time for having a clean house. Like you said, it's a paper plate kind of season. This is not a time for a whole lot of advancement in your career, getting a lot of work done. This isn't a, I'm going to get this project done during my maternity leave kind of a thing.

No, this is a time for focusing on your [00:42:00] body healing. Your body did something amazing and and you know, there's obviously a lot of different circumstances, a lot of ways families are grown, but you know, if you gave birth You had a C section, if you had a vaginal delivery, if you grew a human, this is a way your body has to heal from that too.

Um, and then keeping somebody alive is a lot of work, so you have to give yourself the resources that you need to be able to do that. So you need to eat, you need to rest. And you need to give yourself a lot of grace. Um, moving your body, getting outside. These are all, um, things. Sometimes reading books, sometimes there's, you know, something that is going to remind you that you're still a human being who has, like, other things.

And also, um, some perspective on life, I think, is really important. And then, of course, um, I think we briefly talked about relationships. So how this affects people and their partners, and you mentioned how do, how does this affect dads, [00:43:00] dads have a lot of mood changes to their role has changed from just being a partner to now being a father, maybe being a father, multiple people, a lot of times that there are other children.

Then the dad is really kind of taking over for like the bigger kids and the mom's taking care of the baby. The dad sort of feels like maybe he's losing his partner. There's lots of different changes dynamically in the family that are going on. Um, and so those need to be addressed too. But I think coming together, working together, supporting each other, um, I think no, nothing can be held against each other if it happens between, you know, midnight and 8am.

When you have a newborn baby for the first year, don't make any big decisions. These types of things are really, um, you know, important. 

Kenna Millea: So it's, it's interesting. You bring up the, um, the differences in cultural expectations of new moms and the rooming in that you. Um, spoke to, which is where, um, [00:44:00] a mom stays in her bed and her baby is with her and people come to her.

I know in certain cultures, there's even certain like boundaries around who comes to see her. Um, in that, you know, at various times, um, there was this blog post and if we can find it cause it's really old, I was, gosh, maybe it was after our second babe. Um, so this is like 11 years ago. But I read this blog post of from a mom and I think it was titled how to postpartum like a boss and Basically, it was like letting go it was like all about letting go and there was this one litany that just cracked Pat and I up and it was like She was talking about mothering in and Laying in her bed, I think, you know, she was advocating for two weeks.

Like that would be the ideal. If you could, you know, lay down in the bed for two weeks, really limit your activity, let your body heal. As you said, um, it forces that the house duties, the [00:45:00] cooking duties, the laundry duties, like the mothering of, of the others, like is largely falling on, you know, someone else's shoulders.

Primarily we would assume your partner, your spouse. Um, And that you really are being attentive to the baby and people can come visit you there. So there's this one litany that she writes in there and it was something like, um, something like, you know, kids are, kids are banging on the door, calling your name.

Don't care. Kids are shoving Cheetos under the bedroom door because that's what they're eating for breakfast. Don't care. Husbands picked up day drinking. Don't care. Like, it was just like, I mean, I think she was being hyperbolic in her speech, but Pat would. catch me, you know, when I was postpartum, he would catch me trying to over function, over manage things.

And he would go, Cheetos being pushed under the door because that's what they're eating for breakfast. And he'd be like, what, what do you say? What do you say? And I'd be like, I don't care. Like, like trying to like, will myself to not care. Um, but, um, I just, I, I loved that. And I, [00:46:00] after reading that, that is what we adopted.

And it was, you know, So it was humbling for sure. Yeah. But it was also so beautiful. Um, I remember, so we had most of our babes in the house that we just moved out of and it was on the second floor of this old farm house and we didn't have much room in our master bed because these are, it's a 1920s farm house.

They didn't have king size beds back then. And so it was like this little sliver of space and Pat would bring up two dining room chairs and when friends would come to drop off a dinner or friends would come just to meet the baby or whatever, he'd go, yeah. Go ahead, go on up, go see her. They'd sit. We also admittedly, they weren't the most comfortable chairs.

And I was like, that's okay, because I don't need them staying for four hours. Like, you know, like that's a 30 minute visit is really cool. Like, I will be so excited to see you in like three months. Give me three months when I'm dressed and showered and I'll, I'll hang out with you at the coffee shop. But I just like loved that, like, yeah, let's give each other this [00:47:00] permission.

Um, and really. Um, get to think about what it is that we need in my body, just for whatever reason, it really would have a hard time healing after I gave birth. Um, I experienced a lot of setbacks after my first, um, where I think I thought I was good and then I went too hard and, and then I physically would have symptoms and then mentally would struggle with like, Oh, why do I feel like I just gave birth yesterday?

It's been three weeks. Um, and so yeah, I guess maybe a word of encouragement from me of like, taking time for in that postpartum period to consider, like, what would be helpful for me? Maybe it's not going to be Chinette, like I said, and maybe it's not going to be rooming in. Maybe that's not possible, but you know, what is it that would just take a little bit off, give back some margin?

Dr. Lyndsey Day: Well, and something that you just said about maybe, okay, it's been three weeks. I should be like going now. Um, I always tell women, it took your body nine months to get to be like this. This didn't happen overnight. It didn't happen in three [00:48:00] weeks. So you have to give your body nine months to get back to where it was before.

And sometimes even longer, depending on experiences you might've had. And so, um, of course everybody, you know, wants to get back to their pre pregnancy clothes and the pre pregnancy body and, you know, We have to remember like our bodies are amazing. How absolutely incredible that you could grow a human being and bring it into this world.

And now a new person exists that did not exist before. It is so miraculous. And your body did that. And so give thanks for your body. Thank you for the way that you carried this human and kept it safe and brought it here. And now I'm going to give you some grace and just. We'll let you heal and I am not going to run a marathon in two weeks from now.

There are very few amount of women in the world that can do that. Yep. You're just maybe going to go for a walk around the block. And that is great. Good [00:49:00] job. 

Kenna Millea: Yeah. Yeah. No, that is, that patience though, I mean, I re, I really think it ties to a sense of humility and a poverty of spirit, um, that there is a natural order to things.

And we get to participate in that, um, but it means that we didn't write all the rules and it doesn't maybe go at the speed, the pace that we want it to. And that's really hard. I think especially as Americans, um, that in, in, in 2024, um, That is difficult. And so we know motherhood offers us many opportunities to learn things.

Um, but that is, I think one of those hidden gems and what I'll say to clients, you know, as they share this with me, as I say, this is such great training for the toddler years and the teenage years. And I assume the, I was a young adult once, so I can speak to this from this end of it, a young adult, you know, raising a young adult, like just, [00:50:00] just this awareness of like, I don't just get to control everything.

I don't get to wish it into being, um, there may be steps I have to take that I didn't foresee ways that I need to ask for help, um, and break down those walls of, of shame, secrecy. 

Dr. Lyndsey Day: Yeah. There's a lot of work to do on surrender and trust. 

Kenna Millea: Yeah. Can I, can I ask just as a sidebar, you know, Lyndsey, as a mom, as, um, a woman who not only has the care of six beautiful souls in her family, but so many patients on your caseload.

Um, and, you know, things don't always go the way that you expect, even despite your best efforts as mom, as doctor, as wife, like, how do you live into that surrender? How do you, yeah, lay down your will to receive things as they are? I'm realizing I just put you on this seat of like, you're an expert. 

Dr. Lyndsey Day: I wish I could tell you I'm [00:51:00] so good at that.

Kenna Millea: What are you learning? Maybe that's a better way to put it. 

Dr. Lyndsey Day: I mean, I think, you know, God must laugh at me all of the time because, you know, he's probably like, Lyndsey, I, here's, here's another example. Here's another opportunity for you to practice what you preach. So yeah, no, he is hilarious, I think, in the ways that he provides opportunities for me to work on surrender.

But no, I mean, I, I think for me, it's prayer. It's so much prayer. I have, I say, Jesus, I surrender myself to you. Take care of everything. I say that, Novena. I just have that one on repeat. I'm just constantly praying that. Um, it, for me, I am a very type A. I'm very control. Order these types of things. Um, and so God has really worked on my heart, um, to give a lot of this to him.

And, and I think he's done this in many ways, but [00:52:00] in my motherhood journey specifically, um, our oldest is adopted and. That came with a whole set of additional challenges that we weren't maybe expecting or prepared for And there was no amount of control that I could do in those situations The only thing that I could do was pray and surrender her to him And so I got a lot of practice in that regard And so that's where I am, I guess, you know Just like anything there's there are times when I am getting it right and there are more times than I would like to admit That I am not Um But the good news is there's lots of opportunities for practice, right?

Kenna Millea: Yes. I mean, I'll say to Pat often, like, this is clearly our path to sainthood because 

Dr. Lyndsey Day: Oh, amen. 

Kenna Millea: I must be getting ready. Like, please tell me something about this is going to be effective. Yes. But I love that you're saying like, Prayer is so much, and that surrender prayer is so much of what helps you [00:53:00] because in my mind, I hear that as I get back in touch with reality of who God is and who I am, and that I am not God and that he's got ideas, plans, right?

I mean, what an ordered world we would have though, but, um, but, but, you know, to be, to be in touch with reality, um, in that way. Um, I, I think of Therese, you know, who is our, one of our patrons here at the Martin Center, um, which produces This Whole Life and just her statement of everything is grace. And even in the moments that I messed up, even the moments that do not go according to my very well calculated plans.

Thank you very much. Um, even in those moments, Like there is something that the Lord wants to offer me in this and some kind of, you know, growth or something that he wants to uproot. Um, it's, you know, whether I'm ready to accept it or not is a whole other question. Um, but yeah, so thanks for sharing that.

Um, I wonder. We're just going to keep this train rolling of all of [00:54:00] Lyndsey's wisdom. Um, if you have a challenge by choice for us, Lyndsey. 

Dr. Lyndsey Day: I do. Okay. So it kind of, um, goes a little bit with what you were talking about. The mothering in the rooming and the people coming to visit. So I think a lot, I hear this a lot of times, let me know if you need anything or I'll come over and I'll hold your baby for you.

Moms don't really need you to come hold their baby. Maybe they do for like a small amount of time so they can take a shower. What moms need is they need somebody to come do those things. Clean the house. Take, bring them a meal. Take care of their other kids. Take their kids to the park for a little bit.

And no mom ever is going to be like, When someone says, Oh, like, let me know if you need anything. They're not gonna be like, Oh yeah, actually, like, could you come over and do a load of laundry for me, please? No. So my challenge, my choice is don't say, let me know if you need something. So if you have a mom in your life, you probably do.

There's probably someone in your [00:55:00] life and it could be an older mom, a younger mom, a new mom, a middle mom, any type of mother, just, Do something kind for them. Don't wait for them to ask. Don't even say like, Hey, if you want, I'm going to the store. I'll pick this up for you. Let me know. No, just do it. Just do it.

Just grab that thing. Just drop off that meal. Just hey, I saw your kid needed that. I, I, you know, I can grab them from practice today. Whatever. I don't know, but don't ask. 

Kenna Millea: I love it. 

Dr. Lyndsey Day: Just do it. 

Kenna Millea: I love it. Yeah, the don't ask and, and it's so true. It is human nature, isn't it? That, that we throw out these Kind of blanket, um, invitations and nobody takes us up on it.

Um, yeah, I, it also made me think I'd forgotten about this at when our twins were born, another family with twins set up not just a meal train, but a chore train and, oh my gosh, it was amazing. So she. had, she came down and sat with me and asked me like, what are things that would be helpful? And [00:56:00] then she said, okay, let's go through your house.

You know, I was like six, seven months pregnant at this point. And she was like, let's go through your house. And we're going to explain, you know, in a word doc, like how this thing works. So how to work your dishwasher, how to work your washing machine, how to, you know, what, how, how you all do. XYZ thing. And we wrote up the instructions and pasted them on the appliance or in the place of the house where things need to be done.

One of the things I'll never forget was kind of in the spirit of your challenge by choice. Um, a friend who's an empty nester was over doing another chore had signed up to come just clean toilets or something, who knows. Um, and she, it was in the transition. Our girls were born in April, right? Cause we're about to celebrate their birthdays.

Um, they were born in April. So it's that transition when you so much Snow gear, just clogging up all the doorways and the backpacks and the floors. And she just quietly took all of our winter gear, washed it at her house and brought it back in garbage bags and just stored it in our basement and said, Hey, [00:57:00] by the way, just write that right.

And I was like, Oh my goodness, you are such a Godsend. So I'd completely forgotten that, um, probably because my brain was so fried at that time. But that was a time when someone did exactly what you're describing for me. I mean, on a really big level, um, but just did it. Saw something that was needed. 

Dr. Lyndsey Day: You would never ask somebody to do that. There's no mother in the history that can you season change out the seasons in my house? 

Kenna Millea: Wash my kids grubby ski pants. 

Dr. Lyndsey Day: That is the biggest gift that anybody could give. That is amazing 

Kenna Millea: Yeah, and and just I don't know I think too like how that helped chip away at any feelings of shame to just this implicit message of you are not less than because another mom washed your kids winter hats and gloves.

Um, and you know, it was an implicit message, but it was strong and it, it strengthened my heart. So thank you for that challenge. I love that. I'm kind of like thinking in my head, like, okay, what mom am I going to like sneak attack now with some love? [00:58:00] Um, 

if everybody did that, if everybody did one mom, I mean like, look, yeah.

Just go to Costco, grab a frozen lasagna, like, you know, whatever. 

Dr. Lyndsey Day: Wrap it up at somebody's house. 

Kenna Millea: Oh my goodness. Okay. Well, let's pray, Lyndsey, and wrap this up, and then we'll get ready for others to hear this conversation. In the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Amen. Lord God. We thank you for the ways that you let us participate in bringing life into this world, um, as mothers and fathers, grandmas, grandpas, as people who support new life coming forth and the reality, um, of how challenging that can be, Lord, thank you, um, for, for letting us have this conversation to bring these things into the light and to speak about it in a way, um, that, That allows healing, um, that allows grace and mercy to, to [00:59:00] flood in and to lift us up.

God, I ask you to bless all new parents, um, whether it's their first or their 15th baby, um, new parents who are in this season of change. I pray that this conversation would give them the freedom to really consider what they need. And to let it, to let it come through the charity of others, through the goodness and the generosity of others, and that they would know that ultimately it's you who are the source of that grace.

We ask for your blessing on each and every one of us and the souls that, that we take responsibility for. And we offer this all in your Holy name, Lord. Amen. In the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Amen. Thank you so much, Lyndsey. Um, we look forward to having you back again and are so grateful for how you've opened your practice and your family life to us so we can benefit from your wisdom.

Dr. Lyndsey Day: [01:00:00] Thank you so much for having me. 

Kenna Millea: And thank you to our listeners, um, for being with us for this valuable conversation. Um, Is there someone in your life that could benefit from hearing this? Would you consider sharing this episode with them? Um, and then maybe rate, review, subscribe, um, help us to get the word out about this whole life and the ways that we're seeking sanity and sanctity together and until next time, God bless you.

Dr. Lyndsey Day: Oh, I don't know. I hope I said some good things. 

Kenna Millea: Oh my gosh, of course you did. No, and I really do think we got it in one take. Pat, you're welcome.