Ep50 Senses & Regulation: Occupational Therapy w/ Caitlin Russ

"It is not the soul alone that should be healthy; if the mind is healthy in a healthy body, all will be healthy and much better prepared to give God greater service."
~ St. Ignatius of Loyola

Why do I respond to things differently from others?
What can I do when I'm feeling overwhelmed?
How can I help my kids process & respond to the world around them?

Episode 50 brings an eminently relevant conversation between Kenna and guest Caitlin Russ, a trained occupational therapist. Together they bring out the importance of proactive strategies for managing sensory overload and daily stress, and the unique sensory responses of individuals in finding balance and well-being. Join Kenna and Caitlin as they explore the ways that God made our minds and bodies to receive sensory input, offering practical insights and strategies for navigating life's difficulties, transitions and various seasons.

Caitlin Russ is an Occupational Therapist who spent years working in a pediatric outpatient clinic and with older adults in transitional care. She is passionate about educating people about the benefits of occupational therapy especially as it relates to regulation and sensory processing, and she now utilizes her training in raising her children. Caitlin received her degrees in Psychology and Peace Studies from the University of Notre Dame and went on to St. Catherine University for her Masters in Occupational Therapy. She currently resides with her husband, Sam, and their four, soon to be five, children in Inver Grove Heights, MN. They love spending time outdoors either at the baseball park or hiking.

Episode 50 Show Notes

Chapters:
0:00: Introduction and Highs & Hards
9:06: What is occupational therapy?
20:48: Different people receive input differently
33:44: How do I respond when I'm overwhelmed?
49:25: Behavior can indicate needs
56:17: Challenge By Choice

Questions for Reflection & Discussion:

1. What is one specific thing that stuck with you from this conversation?
2. How do you know when you're feeling overwhelmed? What signs do your loved ones give you when they're feeling overwhelmed?
3. What kinds of sensory input are most likely to feel like "too much" for you and for those in your household?
4. How do you regulate your senses when you've taken in too much input? 
5. How could your sensory capacity be stretched to tolerate more input? What parts of your sensory profile in need of being accepted as part of God's design for you?

Thank you for listening! Visit us online at thiswholelifepodcast.com, and send us an email with your thoughts, questions, or ideas.

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Interested in more faith-filled mental health resources? Check out the Martin Center for Integration

Music: "You're Not Alone" by Marie Miller. Used with permission.

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction and Highs & Hards
• 9:06 What is occupational therapy?
• 20:48 Different people receive input differently
• 33:44 How do I respond when I'm overwhelmed?
• 49:25 Behavior can indicate needs
• 56:17 Challenge By Choice

Transcript

Caitlin Russ [00:00:00]:
We're all made in God's image and likeness, but all differently. And so to some extent, auditory might just always kind of bug you more than it bugs your husband, but something else probably bothers him. So it's finding that fine line of, this could actually be modified a little bit more so I can tolerate better versus this is who I am, and that's okay.

Kenna Millea [00:00:30]:
Welcome to This Whole Life, a podcast for all of us seeking sanity and sanctity, and a place to find joy and meaning through the integration of faith and mental health. I'm Kenna Millea, a licensed marriage and family therapist, and I'm happy to bring you this podcast along with my husband, Pat Millea, a Catholic speaker, musician, and leader. We invite you to our kitchen table. Okay. Not literally, but you're definitely invited into the conversations that we seem to keep having once the kids have scattered off to play and we're left doing the dishes. We're excited to share this podcast for educational purposes. It's not intended as therapy or as a substitute for mental health care. So let's get talking about This Whole Life.

Kenna Millea [00:01:24]:
Welcome back to This Whole Life, everyone. It is so, so good to have you back with us, and to be a part of an episode that's a little different from our most recent episodes. I'm here today with Caitlin Russ, an occupational therapist, a fellow parishioner of ours at Saint Joe's in West Saint Paul, and a a Domer, an Irish alum. So welcome, Caitlin. Thank you. Yeah. Absolutely. I was thinking as we were getting ready for this episode on the gift that occupational therapy can offer for mental health, that in my own world and I think as yours with your 4 kids, soon to be 5 kids Yes.

Kenna Millea [00:02:04]:
The at the beginning of summer, we are all maybe looking for some strategies of, like, how do we transition? Like, my red angry fire breathing dragon is, like she's just, like, so ready to come out of her cave more often right now. And so I was like, this episode is well timed.

Caitlin Russ [00:02:21]:
Right. You need to think about what tools do I have for this transition time.

Kenna Millea [00:02:25]:
Yes. And so I'm really excited that that we are going to do exactly that today. We're going to talk through tools coming out of the, the field of occupational therapy and just what it has to offer us, the way it intersects with mental health. So excited about this. For those of you who do not have the pleasure of knowing Caitlin like we do here, in the Twin Cities, she is an occupational therapist, who spent many years in the pediatric outpatient clinic, as well as with older adults in transitional care. As I said, she is a Notre Dame alum, studying Catholic Peace Studies there and then went on to Saint Kate's University here in the Twin Cities for her Master's in Occupational Therapy. So I know that, Caitlin, you are currently, a great asset to our parish school, Saint Joe's, helping their teachers understand how they can incorporate more of this knowledge and awareness of the many systems that are going on and helping to regulate, our children. So thank you for that all in addition to your role as wife and mom, to, like I said, 4 soon to be 5 Russes.

Kenna Millea [00:03:34]:
So welcome.

Caitlin Russ [00:03:35]:
Yes, thank you. It's good to be here.

Kenna Millea [00:03:37]:
Good. Well okay. So at the beginning of our episodes, Caitlin is just kind of a warm up in a way, especially for our listeners to to get to know you and to get to know how life has been for you lately. We talk through a high and a hard. So if you're willing, I'll put you on the hot seat, and you can share first.

Caitlin Russ [00:03:55]:
Sure. I'll start with a hard. As you mentioned, I'm soon to have 5 kids, so I'm currently very pregnant. And I've really been thinking about how hard for me is just the physical carrying of the baby and all that goes with that, the exhaustion and not being able to do what I'm used to doing. And it relates well to what we'll be talking about now is my body regulation is just not the same. And recognizing that and allowing myself to rest when I'm usually a go getter and do all the things, and that's not my role right now. So that transition time has been really hard. A high, though, has been my family just went to South Dakota for a week long trip as school got out.

Caitlin Russ [00:04:40]:
And it is beautiful across the Black Hills and the Badlands, and we just loved exploring with our kids.

Kenna Millea [00:04:47]:
Have you done that before?

Caitlin Russ [00:04:49]:
So my husband and I have been post college, but never with the kids. And it's such a different vantage point when you have, you know, a 9 year old 7, 5, 2. You would just really see it from a different way.

Kenna Millea [00:05:00]:
Yeah. I've I've heard it is beautiful. Pat's done some, yeah, traveling out that way. We haven't gone as a family, but I've I've heard it is underestimated. You know, people think of the Dakotas and they're like, nah. Snooze town. And, actually, there's a lot of natural beauty out there.

Caitlin Russ [00:05:16]:
Beauty and it's all very different. So there's the dead badlands with hardly any growth, and then you get into the Black Hills and just these tall trees and rolling mountains. So So if you

Caitlin Russ [00:05:27]:
have a chance to go

Kenna Millea [00:05:28]:
Yeah. Do it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Beautiful. Well, for me, kind of picking up on that theme of creation, let's say, my hard and it's it's maybe a kind of a silly hard, but I tried my hand at gardening from seed this year for the first time.

Caitlin Russ [00:05:47]:
It's a challenge.

Kenna Millea [00:05:48]:
And a friend was mentioning that she does it. And she she's like a a California native with a lot of family in Mexico. And so she's just like, yeah. This is what we do. And and I was like, well, and she's like, you can literally just buy a pack of seeds, Kenna, and try them in Dixie cups. Like, this doesn't you don't have to, like, buy a greenhouse. Sure. You don't have to be, you know, Joanna Gaines overnight, like, building an empire of gardening.

Kenna Millea [00:06:13]:
And so, it's but it has been this spiritual exercise of acknowledging, like, I do not have control overall things. Like, I I can, like, will these little baby tomato plants to, like, get bigger Mhmm. Or I can hope that we get X amount of rain, but I also need some dryness so that the roots don't rot. And at the end of the day, it's not for me to control. And so, yeah, the beginning Pat was like, wow, you're just really investing a lot of energy into this kind of, and, and I'm, I think I'm settling into my groove. Check back with me in like 3 summers and hopefully I'll still be at it and, and better with it. But I think it's just, yeah, it's, uncovering some like areas of growth and surrender, you know, that, that I'm still in, in need of undergoing My high, has been actually, this week, Pat is out of town, and, he's gone for 5 days at Catholic Heart Workcamp in Illinois, which is awesome because it allows him to be connected to the world of youth ministry. He's very passionate about the value that service has for youth, right? In a developmental stage where it can be very easy to turn inward and become self focused.

Kenna Millea [00:07:26]:
That's a lot of criticism of teenagers, that service, and and making it attractive and helping teens to see that it's, a lifelong that that Christ calls us to this, to love the least among us. So Pat likes being involved in ventures that support that. And Catholic Heart is one of those. So it's it's great that I can, like, feel good about where he is, you know? But the real high is the way that our kids have really risen up. And we we talk them up big before he leaves of, like, we are a team. Mommy's gonna need you. There are gonna be things that you're asked to do that you didn't make that mess. You didn't leave that out.

Kenna Millea [00:08:07]:
You didn't you don't need that peanut butter and jelly sandwich, but like, I'm going to ask you to make it. And they really need you to just step up and to, to do, you know, what is asked of you. And I promise I will do my best to temper that with times of relaxation and joy and all of that as well. So they've done it and we're on day 3 of 5. And we are living to tell, and they are having a great time, at Vacation Bible School with you, Caitlin. Yes. And so I I think, yeah, it's been a good mixture of highs and hards of their own. But I don't know.

Kenna Millea [00:08:41]:
I just I'm I'm constantly amazed at how much our kids are capable of, if we can scaffold them and and help get them there, which maybe is an entry point into what we're gonna talk about today. So that is a high and just kind of stepping back and being like, wow. Like, they they really are doing this. Like, they are they are living the Christian life of of being selfless and loving others. So that is a definite high. So, okay. I am as we turn the corner here into talking about occupational therapy, I am recognizing that, like okay. We have 3 kids who have been beneficiaries of the world of OT.

Kenna Millea [00:09:22]:
And when it was first suggested to us, I was literally like, what are you talking about? No one was in an accident that like, you know, rendered them, you know, disabled or, like having difficulty of recovering or anything along those lines. Like, why would we go to OT? And it took a while for Pat and I both to kind of get on board, to be honest, and to understand, like, how this commitment to occupational therapy for our kids would be beneficial. So I'm just wondering if you can help us, like, can we define this? Like, can we just like, what the heck are we talking about here?

Caitlin Russ [00:09:59]:
Yeah. I think that's a really important question because when I tell people I am an occupational therapist, I get a lot of blank stares. People wondering, like, well, my kid doesn't work or it's not about my occupation. So what is occupational therapy? And the reason I was drawn to occupational therapy is it is so broad. So you can work with infants all the way to the elderly and dying. You can work with people who are high functioning and really like, you're saying there was no accident. There was no diagnosis. Or you can work with the people who are very clearly in an ICU and have a clear need for it.

Caitlin Russ [00:10:37]:
But either way, the role of occupational therapy is to help people find meaning in their daily activities and to help them achieve that with good health and good attention. It's a largely problem solving field of you're not fully participating in your daily activities to the amount that you want to be. So how can we help you get to that point? So with a kid, if it's a kid who has attention difficulties or sensory issues, how can they engage in play and eat and dressing themselves? Or if it's someone who had a car accident and has an orthopedic issue, how can we help you get to the point where you can put your pants back on even though you're in this large cast? So it's problem solving. What daily activities are you struggling with right now and how can we get you to that full potential again?

Kenna Millea [00:11:31]:
Well and I think that as I was observing what the OTs were doing with our kids, I was especially realizing, like, it it didn't need to be an extreme circumstance to benefit from, understanding how the systems of your body work, your nervous system, your senses, the toll that taking in, you know, sensory input has on you. And as a, I would say, high functioning adult, like, I was finding that I was starting to incorporate a lot of the things that we were learning in OT with our kids, not just so that we would, you know, kind of normalize it within our family. That was a big piece of it too. But just for me, for Pat and I, and we were starting to talk about, like, woah. These were things that, maybe were underdeveloped skills and resources inside of ourselves. And so, you know, for those who are listening, if you're like, I don't have kids or I wasn't in a car accident or whatever. Like, no, I am telling you, like, there is gold here. And a lot of it overlaps with mental health.

Kenna Millea [00:12:31]:
I think about kind of this burgeoning area of mental health around grounding and mindfulness. It's about being aware of what is literally going on around you, and I think OT is so much about that, about, yeah, being connected to the task at hand or the set the setting that you're in, and how do I adapt? How do I manage? How do I cope so I can flourish as you were saying?

Caitlin Russ [00:12:54]:
Right. I think that's exactly it. I think when people ask me who could benefit from occupational therapy, every single person can benefit from OT. If you think that you're running through your life and you can do every activity you want to do at a 100% with no problems, then maybe you're the one person who can skip an OT.

Kenna Millea [00:13:12]:
Who are you?

Caitlin Russ [00:13:12]:
But also, what are your secrets to life? And otherwise, if not, if you ever have a hard day or this one activity is just you can't get to it a 100%. There's some gem in OT that can help you learn that and figure out what's going on in my body so I can connect my brain, body, spiritual, all well-being to really be a 100% at this activity.

Kenna Millea [00:13:35]:
Yeah. Yeah. I I think one of the things that I remember one of our sons, OTs, saying is she said, you know, just the way that certain things are set up. And I I don't honestly have the technical terms right now. I think it was some disintegrated reflexes. She was like simple things like hearing the white noise chatter in a restaurant, for you, that's a 2. But for him, that's like a 6. And so if you're, if you're in this, you know, out of 10, and so if you're in this state of, oh, like this like, yeah, the littlest thing, like your brother taking your crayons or, you know, your bike wheel being your bike tire being flat when you're ready to go play at your friend's house, like, that is gonna send you through the roof.

Kenna Millea [00:14:21]:
Like, just that was so helpful for me to understand. Like, oh, we, you know, outwardly, maybe a person seems perfectly fine, but we don't know what's going on inside in their in the intricacies of their system.

Caitlin Russ [00:14:34]:
Well, and sometimes they themselves don't know what's going on. Right? Like, you hear that white noise and you don't think I'm really focusing a lot to tune that out. And then you hear a louder noise, and it really sets you off. But you didn't realize your body was working so hard to not listen to that white noise. So it's really being aware of your own self and what sets you off even if it isn't visible. That definitely bothers me. Yeah.

Kenna Millea [00:14:59]:
Yeah. So okay. So start us at the beginning. Like, give us the foundation. What you know, for for the alien that just has arrived on the planet and they're like, oh, gee. What is this? What do you want them to know? What are some foundational blocks so that we can build some practical skills into this conversation?

Caitlin Russ [00:15:15]:
Yeah. That's a great question. So I think what we're coming back to a lot of is regulation. So that's a section of occupational therapy. But I think it's really important because you want your body to be regulated no matter what you're doing. So when I say regulation, I mean, it's your body's ability to attune to the task at hand at the appropriate state of attention, the appropriate cognitive level, the appropriate emotion, the appropriate fight, flight, fright response. So you want your body to be regulated in a way that you can do that activity. So to be regulated in a way to sit and study for 5 hours is gonna be different than to be regulated in a way to run a marathon or to cook or to care for people in your household.

Caitlin Russ [00:16:01]:
And so when I am looking at regulation, there's different levels of regulation. So there's the cognitive. Are you using the right, thinking and choices? There's the emotional. Are you appropriately responding sadly or happy or frustrated? And then what I really like to tune into is the sensory regulation. So how are your body senses tuning into that task and either tuning things out that they don't need to be paying attention to or focusing on what there is. And what I really love about OT is we talk about not just 5 senses, but 8, which kinda throws people for a loop.

Kenna Millea [00:16:41]:
Yeah. What the heck is that?

Caitlin Russ [00:16:43]:
So you have your 5 senses that you learn in kindergarten. Right? There's the sight, smell, taste, hearing, and touch. But then beyond that, we have a few senses. One is called proprioception. So that's not touch as in is this scratchy or smooth, but it's touch as in how hard am I touching something. So you can think of proprioception when you have a friend who's a really hard hugger. They might not like that hug isn't as fulfilling to them unless it's a really hard hug. And then you might have the person who's barely tapped, and it's just so jolting.

Caitlin Russ [00:17:16]:
So they have different levels of perceiving that. And then there's vestibular, which is your sense that tells you where you are in space. So it's how people get car sick or more dizzy on different rides. So vestibular is all in the inner ear, and it kind of helps you regulate just that you're sitting still and not spinning round and around. And then the last one's interoception. And that is your body's awareness of how you're feeling. If you're hungry, if you're tired, do you have to go to the bathroom? So it's that concept of recognizing your body's inner cues to do those basic needs. And that one's always interesting to me because you have someone who is really hungry and they just don't notice it, but they're starting to get more angry and angry and, right, the hangry concept.

Caitlin Russ [00:18:08]:
Well, they just need to eat and they'll be okay. And some people are much better at acknowledging that and going with that, and then others, maybe not so much. And so it's just we all have different levels of being able to process these sensory input that contributes to regulation.

Kenna Millea [00:18:24]:
And so then the idea of regulation skills, is to make that more manageable, less taxing? Is that how you would say that?

Caitlin Russ [00:18:34]:
Exactly. So if you look at the brain, there's Dr. Dan Siegel who writes a number of books. I really like The Whole Brain Child. He talks about there's the upstairs brain and the downstairs brain. So your downstairs brain is your brain that's the limbic system. That's that fight, flight, fright response. So that's the system that's taking in the sensory input and doing something about it right away. But then you have your prefrontal cortex, the upstairs brain, and that's the part of your brain that is not fully developed until into the twenties.

Caitlin Russ [00:19:08]:
Right? So kids aren't still working a lot at this. And it tells your body, okay. I see that there's a flashing red light, but I don't have to run because of that light. But I do need to run if, you know, there's a fire over here. And so regulation is connecting that upstairs and downstairs brain to let yourself know I'm gonna perceive all this sensory. I can ignore these things. I should do something about these other things.

Kenna Millea [00:19:34]:
So regulation is making sense of the cues that the downstairs brain perceives by using the upstairs brain to make decisions, choices Exactly. Follow through on things. Okay. And so when those when the up if there's no staircase between the downstairs and the upstairs, we can look a little chaotic. Right. Or we can look, out of place in a certain setting, in a library. If I'm acting like I'm at a rock concert or the Indy 500, then that's going to look odd. But, but if there's no staircase, there was no way for that to all come together.

Kenna Millea [00:20:09]:
And so you're saying OT helps to provide us the skills to, like, strengthen that staircase?

Caitlin Russ [00:20:14]:
Absolutely. Okay. Gives you tools to make sense of it. It gives you tools to understand one person's staircase is going to look different from another person's staircase. So I might be able to handle a lot of visual input, but not auditory input, and you might be the opposite. And the way our stairs work to connect that upstairs and downstairs differ. Yeah.

Caitlin Russ [00:20:37]:
But there's tools to help us both in navigating a smooth staircase as opposed to one where we're missing 3 steps.

Kenna Millea [00:20:45]:
Yeah. Right. I'm leaping. Okay. So the image that came or the thought that came to my mind is, Pat and I take turns on weekdays cooking dinner. Like, it just depends on who picks up kids from school and then gets home first, basically. And so, oftentimes, I'm coming home later on his days to to make dinner, and I'll walk into the kitchen, and he's got you know, if it's this if it's spring, summer, he's totally got country music playing. If it's, you know, in colder seasons, it's kinda grab bag.

Kenna Millea [00:21:18]:
But he can do that. He can follow a recipe, manage kids with I mean, you know, that dinner hour is just bananas. Manage the kids with their needs and their requests and also have that music playing and enjoy it. And I come in and I'm like, I can't think straight. Like, I'm like, I got to just shut this off. And he's like, okay. No need to beat the phone. You're like, just, you know, gently just pause the music.

Kenna Millea [00:21:43]:
But that makes sense. Like, that that sensory input for him, is just really registering

Caitlin Russ [00:21:50]:
Right.

Kenna Millea [00:21:50]:
Differently.

Caitlin Russ [00:21:51]:
So yeah. So he appreciates the extra auditory input. It can help regulate and calm him. But for you, the extra auditory input just puts you over the edge. So we all have different sensory profiles of which senses we can tolerate more of and which we can tolerate less of. Yeah. And you can think of it as a kind of a bucket. So everyone has a bucket where all their sensory stuff gets put into from the start of the morning.

Caitlin Russ [00:22:19]:
So they wake up and, you know, how itchy your shirt is being put on is a certain sensory input. And how bright the sun is that day is a sensory input. And some people have a really big bucket, and it doesn't matter what you throw at them. They can take it. Some people have a really small cup. And if they don't if they don't do something to help relieve how much sensory has been put into them, they're just gonna overflow. And some people are almost like a colander, and it's just draining out. The more you put in, it just they just need more and more.

Caitlin Russ [00:22:51]:
So those are the people who are just the high energy, need to run, run, fidget, fidget, and you're like. Is this like every toddler we know? Or I mean, there's a lot of 2 year olds that may fit this category. And so everyone has a different need, and so all of our regulation looks different to that extent.

Kenna Millea [00:23:08]:
Okay. So when you say that that music while making dinner for Pat is actually helping to regulate him, but it is a source of dysregulation for me. Yeah. That is fascinating to me. So do we have hope to change that? Like like, if I'm if I'm born with a small cup, can I ever hope to have a big bucket? Like, how does that work?

Caitlin Russ [00:23:34]:
And that's a great question because I think in some senses, yes. So there are different aspects of occupational therapy that can help expand your cup to a bucket. There's different auditory tools we use with kids who are really you know, anybody who's really sensitive to a fire alarm, and it just completely shuts them down. There's different ways occupational therapy can help address that. But also, it's really great because we're all made in God's image and likeness, but all differently. And so to some extent, auditory might just always kind of bug you more than it bugs your husband, but something else probably bothers him. So it's finding that fine line of this could actually be modified a little bit more so I can tolerate better versus this is who I am, and that's okay.

Kenna Millea [00:24:22]:
Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. So perhaps, like, I'm thinking about a lot of clients who will come to us because they've had some kind of life change or transition that is presenting them with maybe a new setting, new demands in their job or in their vocation. And they're struggling with that change in transition to use your language, like to stay regulated in the midst of these new expectations or demands and things like that. So, so you're saying, yeah, like OT could help them per, I mean, also talk therapy with what we do here. We don't do OT here. Don't be confused.

Kenna Millea [00:24:55]:
But, but but that, there could be ways in which we could widen in Dan Siegel's words, the window of tolerance, widen that out, and also maybe some alterations to the setting itself to make that thing more tolerable.

Caitlin Russ [00:25:12]:
Right. So looking at those adaptations, maybe the light is too bright. So how can we dim that in your office so that you can focus a little bit better? But the other cool thing about this sensory processing and regulation is that you can also do physical things or maybe have a different taste like a mint or lemonade that can help either regulate you to a higher state of arousal or lower. So there are ways you can change what you're doing to adjust in those transition times. And a lot of it's trial and error what works well, but there's also known aspects of sensory that are more calming across the board or more right or rising of arousal across the board.

Kenna Millea [00:25:58]:
Yeah. Yeah. So okay. Let's talk practical for a minute. And I'm, and I'm thinking like the average Joe or, you know, Sally listening, that are going, you know what? I'm like generally bopping along. I definitely have my moments of stress. I have my moments of, you know, I I I blow up at my colleague or my neighbor or my significant other or whatever. Like, what kinds of things could we just even be suggesting to help people, get to know their staircase and how strong, sturdy, smooth.

Kenna Millea [00:26:34]:
I can't remember the words you were using, earlier, but that all goes. You know, if they're like, I don't even know where to start.

Caitlin Russ [00:26:40]:
Right. So for me, at least, it helps to look at when I feel the most dysregulated. And dysregulated is when you're stressed. If someone brings in one more thing to tell you, you just can't handle it after the fact, in the fact it's gonna be hard to identify. But after the fact, look at what was that setting of that day like? And not necessarily what was the moment when I got pushed over the edge, but how did my build up to that go? Was I sitting all day and not moving my body? Were the lights really bright all day? Is there a lot of extra noise that day? Was there more time in the car? That's that vestibular input that kinda makes you motion sick. And you can kinda look at it as this volcano picture of you get a lot at the bottom and slowly you fill up this volcano heading to the top. And so all that sensory input that's coming in throughout the day is affecting you, but your upstairs downstairs brain are connecting it okay and telling you, you'll be fine. Take a deep breath.

Caitlin Russ [00:27:43]:
Keep moving. But then you get home and country music's on and you just lose your mind. And so it wasn't the country music that sets you over the edge. It was that your volcano filled up all the way to the top, and the country music was just that one last drop that pushed you over. Yes. So taking an inventory of the whole day, and you might need to do this over a week and say, oh, whenever I spend an extra hour in the car, I'm pushed over my edge or whenever I haven't moved my body enough. That was a day where I got pushed over or, you know, the conference room was extra noisy that day. That put me over.

Caitlin Russ [00:28:23]:
And when you see these consistent things that maybe didn't bother you in the moment, but they're always there, that might be something that needs to be looked at then.

Kenna Millea [00:28:33]:
So I'm hearing you say being attentive to the cumulative effect of these different sensory stim stimuli that are coming in for us. And what I think, you know, is for me, the connection to mental health here is because then people come in and say, I've got an anger problem. I've got an anxiety problem. I've got a depressive problem, which, like, absolutely, we can help and and support those some of those symptoms too. And, also, I'm finding that some of these OT things that you're talking about, especially around regulation, are supports that can go can we get back to baseline? Like, can we figure out what what really the where the mental health lies and how much of this could be controlled for, with some kind of beefing up of skills, strategies, maybe some adaptations, some changes to things. Like, that's the connection to mental health for me.

Caitlin Russ [00:29:28]:
Absolutely. I think the reason I was drawn to occupational therapy after also having studied psychology was that psychology seemed so much just in my mind, and there was not that hard tactile bodily experience of it. And then when I discovered occupational therapy as something to study and pursue, I realized, well, it's all connected. Your mental health is how your body is feeling. Right? Because a lot of mental health, different diagnoses can come through in a stomachache or a headache or it's your body experiencing it. And so if your body can display symptoms, then your body can also help to ground you and find a way back to your baseline and comfort zone.

Kenna Millea [00:30:14]:
Mhmm. That place of regulation, groundedness, being yeah. Being able to be present to what's going on in the moment. Yeah. That's beautiful. Okay. So I'm thinking back to what you were describing, a moment ago around being aware, not just of like, that was the moment that I really lost it. And that's the, you know, that's when I knew that I had an anxiety problem.

Kenna Millea [00:30:40]:
But, like, looking again at that cumulative effect of of all those things, and and yeah. Like, what wisdom there is in being able to, kind of classify, like, what are or or should notice, I guess, like, what are things where I do seem to be more calm, do seem to be a bit more grounded, do seem to feel like more my true self, like my authentic self. What are things where I'm putting a little more effort? Like, yeah. I was able to get through that meeting, but like, oh my gosh. The room was sweltering and that buzzing that was coming from the closed circuit TV up in the corner, which is about to make me crazy. Like, like, yeah, I could muscle through, but to to look back and kind of, give ourselves like, acknowledge, I guess, what we've asked our system to withstand, to tolerate throughout the day, but that would be helpful, like an inventory of sorts Sure. To notice these things. So that feels like a a soft challenge by choice, even just a little bit there of, like, journaling that, being aware of that.

Kenna Millea [00:31:41]:
As you were talking through some of those things, I know for myself the difference between get driving to work at 7 in the morning when there's really not a ton of folks on the road yet, And I have a 30 minute commute. And so, like, if that can just be easy without a lot of weaving, without a lot of slamming on brakes, and looking at traffic ahead, and checking my GPS for arrival times and all that, versus even just 7:25 Mhmm. When, like, way more folks are heading into the city. Just the difference that that takes and like how maybe we could say how many balls I've already put in my bucket, just on my drive. Right. But those aren't things that we are accustomed to noticing.

Caitlin Russ [00:32:23]:
No. And your body is your body and brain are trained to tune that out. You just address it and you keep going. That's how we get in that autopilot, which is good. If we were tuning into every single jolting in and out of traffic and every single light that we saw along the way, we wouldn't make it past 8 AM. Right? That would just be the end of our day. So our body should tune a lot of that out, and that's part of regulation. But when your body's constantly regulating through the whole day, that's when it just really takes a toll on the body.

Caitlin Russ [00:32:56]:
I think about it as I'm currently largely pregnant, and I have to remind myself my body is spending all day either tuning out being kicked in the rib or having to go to the bathroom or just being exhausted. And so then it makes sense at the end of the day when I feel a lot less patient with my kids. Well, I don't have that same space in my brain and regulatory system as I do when I'm not this far along in pregnancy.

Kenna Millea [00:33:26]:
There's just more balls going into the bucket on the daily and not by anything you can do differently except adjust maybe some of these other inputs. Okay. Okay. Well, let's keep talking on the practical Yep. Realm. Like, what are other things as people are maybe starting to take inventories? Listeners are noticing like, okay, there's this, you know, awareness that, I am less able to to be present, to be regulated when I get home from work or when I'm, you know, having one on one time with folks at the end of a day. What kinds of things can we do to help ourselves take these breaks from senses or metabolize some of this sensory input?

Caitlin Russ [00:34:04]:
Absolutely. So I think it largely depends on the person. Again, what bothers someone is different than what helps soothe someone. But thinking about, like you said earlier, when I when do I feel calm? What is going on in that atmosphere? I think that God has given us the great gift of nature. And across the board, nature is one of those calming, soothing areas for the body. When you're looking at things up close, your eye muscles are working far differently than when you're looking at something far away. So that balance of looking at something up close, but then looking out your window at work, it really helps regulate the visual system. And then being able to move your body, that proprioceptive input of carrying something heavy or just walking farther along is much more calming than just sitting still in the same static position.

Caitlin Russ [00:34:57]:
So taking a walk outside. And I think a lot of the push towards you should be really active and get outside a lot. Get your steps in. Right? Like, it's that cardio. What's the health? It is healthy for you. That's not wrong. But I think if you can look at it in terms of no. This is actually regulating.

Caitlin Russ [00:35:15]:
It's not running 5 miles a day, but getting outside and hearing different sounds, the nature sounds versus the buzzing of the monitor or, the smells of outside and not just like the stale inside. It all of that really is regulating. And right now as we're heading into summer, it's much easier to say than when it's negative 20 outside. But there is this truth and beauty of God gives us what we need, and we just need to step out into it.

Kenna Millea [00:35:46]:
Yeah. Yeah. Gotta engage it. Mhmm. I just I think so often about how, folks, you know, can can come to therapy. And and after hard work and X number of months in our offices, they'll be like, so when am I gonna be fixed? Like, when am I never gonna feel anxious again? Or when am I never gonna have a down moment or have another intrusive thought? And I'm, like, no, no, no, no, no. The goal of you being here is to help you establish some habits and to really let some skills become more muscle memory, allow you to know when to engage them. And so I'm hearing you say there is no, like, magic easy button to press, but we've got to be, aware of and utilizing some of these kinds of skills and and nature being a huge one Right for us.

Caitlin Russ [00:36:34]:
And beyond nature, I mean, we can't always step outside. We're stuck inside. There's different senses we can tap into in within our confined area where we are. So in this is varying for each person. But if you need to alert yourself, having something sour or crunchy or really chewy, engaging those senses, can really help alert you to something. And then calming techniques are something sweet and, you know, it's that when you think of foods that you eat that kind of like, oh, I wanna curl up on my couch now. That's a much more soothing taste and texture versus I just bit into this lemon and I'm ready to go. I can hear what you are saying a 100%.

Caitlin Russ [00:37:20]:
So thinking about foods you eat or smells that you smell, is lavender really kinda put you to sleep? And does peppermint really alert you? And think about those different things you smell, taste, see, hear. What music helps you focus, what doesn't, are different techniques you can use then throughout the day to say, I need to be much more alert at this meeting versus I need to just calm down so I can handle the dinner chaos that's about to hit.

Kenna Millea [00:37:48]:
So when you were talking about taste, I remember I I had an intern that was shadowing me, and I was getting ready to start a session, and I got out a pack of peppermint gum. And I took just, like, a little bit. I didn't eat the whole piece, but I took just a little bit. And she was like, you're gonna chew gum during your session? And it didn't even occur to me that that was odd. Right? That that's, like, kind of weird when your job is talking Right. And being heard clearly that you would put gum in your mouth. And I was, like, at the moment, I couldn't say why it was, but I was like, I just know that I am more attentive, that the session like, I just feel able to be more present when I have a little bit of gum tucked in the back of my mouth. Yeah.

Kenna Millea [00:38:28]:
I guess I could also maybe use, like, a breath mint or something. But as I'm listening to you, I'm like, this this is connecting dots for me. Yeah. Like, that helps me to be yeah. Because otherwise, sitting in my cozy therapist chair, it could be so especially if it's tele. Oh, my gosh. Sure. A virtual session, you know, it's so easy to kind of fade off.

Kenna Millea [00:38:46]:
But, like, yeah, it helps me, like, I'm even just sitting up taller talking about it. My body remembers that. So, yeah. So so are you saying that, you know, there are some kind of universals, like lemons being more stimulating, arousing, and, you know, lavender being more soothing, calming. Like, there are some universals, but but really people just have to experiment and be willing to try things out for themselves.

Caitlin Russ [00:39:13]:
Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. There's some universals you can see. Weighted blankets are all the rage right now. That is a real and true thing. It's giving input to your body that's heavy and weighted that is calming and can help you sleep. But you're still gonna have I got a weighted blanket for one of my children thinking this is gonna be it.

Caitlin Russ [00:39:32]:
It's gonna keep them in bed, and it did not. He couldn't handle the extra weight. He just wanted to kick it off, and it made it way worse. So there are universals, but we're all made differently, and that's a really great thing, but also can be frustrating when you're trying to find that perfect sensory profile of this is what I need to be exactly what I and it changes based on what your task is too. One thing it's gonna work for and another time it's just gonna distract you.

Kenna Millea [00:40:01]:
Yeah. Well, and I'm thinking about, you know, how at This Whole Life podcast, we are wanting to to provide information and skills for a full life. Right? Saint Irenaeus says, "the glory of God is the human person fully alive." And so that that addresses the reality of this human corporeal, you know, carne, you know, this this meaty experience that we have. And, and so when people, you know, want to, be more patient with their children, their boss, their colleague, when they want to have more to give in terms of, yeah, pouring themselves out in in selfless service to others. Like, these are some it's it's it's like, how can this be connected? Well well, it is because you won't have a lot self to give. You won't have a lot of capacity, to rise up to maybe the call that the Lord has if you aren't attending to these really human things. Maybe that sounds like so far fetched, but for me, you know, sometimes I'm like, there there are levels of attention that we need to give when someone's looking at their life and going, I want more.

Kenna Millea [00:41:10]:
I wanna be more. I wanna receive more. I want to, yeah, feel more. This is one piece of of what someone could consider if they feel like they're not really living out full potential.

Caitlin Russ [00:41:23]:
Absolutely. And I think it's exactly that if sometimes it feels selfish to take that piece of gum for yourself or take that extra walk, but this is truly what our bodies are asking for. And you see little kids whose upstairs downstairs brain are not fully connected yet, but they still seek out those things. So the kids going to play in the mud or the kids spinning and spinning on the swing wall, their body is telling them that sensory, I need this input if I'm gonna attend to the next playful thing I'm about to do. So giving into that body need and desire really is good for the whole mental health and whole being because it does allow you to focus better on whatever task at hand God has put in front of you.

Kenna Millea [00:42:11]:
Yeah. Because he often asks hard things and, like, I gotta have room

Kenna Millea [00:42:15]:
in my bucket for all those balls You do. That he's asking of me. Okay. So you bring up kids and, you know, acknowledging that there are a lot of folks who are listening who are providing care to children who, like you said, do not have a fully built staircase yet.

Caitlin Russ [00:42:28]:
Yeah.

Kenna Millea [00:42:29]:
Or or top floor, really. And and so in their roles as parents, as teachers, as aunts, as,

Caitlin Russ [00:42:36]:
you know, godparents, uncles, grandparents, like, what kinds of things can they be mindful of? Can they be thinking about when it comes to our kids who can't do for themselves all the way yet? Right. Yeah. So it's a really important part. So we talk about we've been talking about regulation. So we have self regulation of tuning into what we need and then making the right choices to get that. But kids are not fully developed in that brain connection area. So then occupational therapists talk about coregulation. So that's when the caregiver is looking at what behaviors the kid is displaying and saying, okay.

Caitlin Russ [00:43:14]:
I think you need this and then showing them. So it's not as simple as talking to a 4 year old and saying, let's take deep breaths because 4 year olds are not going to take deep breaths with you. But kind of using the language of, I think your body looks a little wiggly. Does it need to go to the bathroom, or do you need to jump around and kind of working with those kids and saying, I see this. What does your body need? I think it needs this and kinda giving options. And that continues into the teenage years. Right? So there's the kid who's just sitting there fidgeting and fidgeting. Well, maybe that kid hasn't been able to move his body yet, and he's 14

Kenna Millea [00:44:01]:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So so you're saying, like, using our own upstairs. Right? So really our own downstairs upstairs because I'm perceiving with my downstairs brain what is going on with the child. I'm seeing them be wiggly. Mhmm. And then connecting that to my upstairs brain, my upstairs brain's like, oh, I know that when they're showing me behavior, it's very likely that they need something that they're not getting.

Kenna Millea [00:44:23]:
And so then to kind of experiment, check it out, try some different things, see what feels good, and helpful when you were giving your weighted blanket example. We have some kids who really love in our family who really love the weighted blanket. And that was an experiment, you know, that we were trying to figure out and how much weight, you know, was helpful. And at what times, you know, in the day was that helpful? Is it during nap time? Is it a bedtime? And, you know, everything in between. So so when we are coregulating, to let our own, you know, more developed, connected upstairs downstairs brain, to be able to get curious with that child and to try things. You also mentioned, you know, even through teenage years, 1 our our oldest is 13 right now. And, one of the things that we are finding is, as an introvert. So, I'm guessing her sensory profile will be pretty high maybe on, per you know, a lot of the senses maybe, but particularly auditory.

Kenna Millea [00:45:26]:
And, like, woah. She is the leader of the pack of 7 really rowdy children. And and so she is finding that after school, before she even sits down to do her homework, she goes on a half hour walk, listens to all instrumental music. She loves to be the orchestra conductor, and she just walks down the neighborhood street conducting with her little baton finger. And then she comes back and she can zip through her afternoon routine. Right? We are talking she practices 3 instruments every day, homework, chores, helping out with siblings, cleaning up her room. She's captain of laundry. Like, I mean, legit, the girl has a lot to do.

Caitlin Russ [00:46:10]:
I need her at my house.

Kenna Millea [00:46:11]:
Well, yeah. No. True. True. But but, like, we have noticed that that her demeanor, her ability to move through that, I mean, she was doing it before. I'd say it's probably been 6 months of these walks. She was doing it before, but it was not with the same kind of ease and, like, self initiative that we've been seeing lately. And so I'm like, yeah.

Kenna Millea [00:46:35]:
There's a whole lot that's been good about that for her. And I imagine it's touching a lot of things you're saying.

Caitlin Russ [00:46:41]:
Well and that's a great example of she's using that walk to not just reset everything that has been put into her up until that point, but she's using that walk as a basis to then set herself up for success in her future routine. So when you're looking at these sensory needs, it's not just reactive. I see that you got pushed over the edge. How can I recenter? But proactive in okay. I'm about to send my really fidgety son to school today, and I want him to not get in trouble with the teacher. So maybe I could tell him to go shoot 20 baskets outside at the basketball hoop to get that proprioceptive input and that outdoor nature input proactively so that he's setting himself up better for focus. And it really is as a caregiver, a trial and error because what works for one kid is not gonna work for the next.

Caitlin Russ [00:47:33]:
But you kinda know which kids need to move their body more or need that instrumental walk where they can kinda just zone out a little bit. And you pick it up as you go. But it is all trial and error. And as kids are moving from different ages, what they need varies. And they have all this regulation issues going on of their bodies growing. So just going through a growth spurt alone can set off behaviors. I think what I love about occupational therapy is I might not be able to fix it all. And I might not have the exact answers, but I have this better understanding of one of my sons whenever there's a time of transition, school to summer, summer to school, he's going to act out more.

Caitlin Russ [00:48:16]:
But just knowing it's because all this regulation and sensory input has shifted, I can expect it and at least be more prepared in that sense.

Kenna Millea [00:48:26]:
Mhmm. Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. No. And I'm I'm thinking about, kinda similar to your example. One of our sons, his OT asked, you know, before school, can we have a routine? And it was some days it was being on the sensory swing. We have like a sling swing The best.

Kenna Millea [00:48:43]:
That gave a lot of pressure and allowed for he loved spinning. Like, that was great for him. Some days we did things with the big balance ball, like, the exercise ball. We had a game where I would roll, pretend an ice cream scoop, and we'd roll it across his limbs and down his core. Other times it was, chewing, like, needed gum. Like, after breakfast, would chew and just get that oral stimulation in. And it it has, you're so right. It has changed so much over time.

Kenna Millea [00:49:17]:
And so, it's work as a caregiver to be attentive to those shifts and those changes and to notice those. But I think when, yeah, there's maybe some acting out or I'm feeling frustrated or I'm getting feedback from his teachers and other caregivers that they're frustrated, like, that's a good indication of, like, okay. What might the behaviors that have been disruptive or unwanted by others? Like, what might that indicate that this person needs, that can be, yeah, a good sign?

Caitlin Russ [00:49:47]:
Well and I think it's remembering just that is behaviors is children's form of communication. So they're not gonna sit there and say, I'm really nervous about this huge life change that's about to happen. Like, that vocabulary just just it doesn't flow, nor does it flow from adults very easily. Right?

Kenna Millea [00:50:04]:
Like Again, that lower and upper

Caitlin Russ [00:50:06]:
It just doesn't come. And, you know, for adults, it might be because we're just holding it back and we don't want to say it. But for kids, they really just don't realize that this is making them nervous. So then they're acting out with different behaviors. So being able to recognize behaviors are more so just seeking a different sensory input or some cognition to help process it. Then you can kinda think through it and you realize that you can't just tell a kid to stop doing that. You need to say, instead of that, let's keep our hands to ourselves and give them a tight squeeze instead of pushing your right. And it's the same for adults.

Caitlin Russ [00:50:44]:
If your spouse comes home and is just in this terrible mood, maybe saying, did you eat lunch today in a very caring manner? Because maybe they just have that input of I'm hungry, but they're past the point of hungry. They just jump to anger. So kinda helping each other realize, oh, this behavior is actually this basic need that I have.

Kenna Millea [00:51:07]:
Yeah. Well, and I think too, it doesn't, how do I say this? At being attentive, right. To, to the sensory needs and, and to this awareness of input and where am I at with being able to regulate, or how can I help my child that is in my care co co regulate with me? It doesn't diminish accountability. Right? At the end of the day, I still have to be accountable for my behaviors, my choices, kind of the way I'm steering my life. And also, God has given us this sense of agency and this empowerment to go, well, let's, like, eliminate maybe some of the factors that are making it hard for me to be a kind, patient, compassionate, loving, generous human when I get home from work and Pat's playing country music in the kitchen. And instead of just, you know, ripping his head off about it. Like like, what are those things? For me, it and and maybe this comes as no surprise now that I've told you all this, but I do not listen to music in the car. Right.

Kenna Millea [00:52:04]:
I said I have a half hour commute each way. Mhmm. In the morning, I'm usually praying a rosary, but on the way home, even I am just literally letting the chatter of the day, and there's so much chatter, like, just kind of fade away. And I'm preparing for the next round of chatter.

Caitlin Russ [00:52:19]:
Absolutely.

Kenna Millea [00:52:20]:
Because I have 8 people who really wanna talk to me. So, yeah. I'm I'm loving this both and too of, like, we can both engage these skills, these awarenesses, utilize some of these practices and still hold ourselves accountable, for yeah. Am I am I making great choices with these resources that are accessible for me?

Caitlin Russ [00:52:43]:
Right. Yeah. Think about what does calm me. Am I seeking that calming thing out? Like, I know a 5 minute walk around the block will help, but I chose to scroll on my phone for 5 minutes instead. That visual stimuli definitely set me off more. So being accountable of we do have these needs, are we addressing them? It doesn't have to be an hour long nature hike, but just did I step outside, put my phone down, and look at the trees for 2 minutes? It can make all the difference.

Kenna Millea [00:53:13]:
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Or even, like, yeah, what what kind of fuel did I give my body today? What kinds of things did I offer it? There are certain days where, I know that it's gonna be a challenging day, and I strategically choose more comfortable clothes.

Caitlin Russ [00:53:30]:
Absolutely.

Kenna Millea [00:53:31]:
Like, I've got certain things that it's, like, I'm gonna be adjusting. I'm gonna be pulling and tugging and straightening or whatever. And I'm just like just I think maybe subconsciously, like, my body remembers and it's like, oh, that outfit, too much work. Like, we don't have time for that. Like, we are going at breakneck pace, and there's a lot of big heavy lifting to be done around the office. So we're gonna wear something comfy.

Caitlin Russ [00:53:52]:
So That's exactly it. It's that that's the tactile input. Right? Like, I know that one shirt has that tag that really bothers me. And if you don't have to tune in to that itchy tag all day, you have a little more space to

Kenna Millea [00:54:05]:
In my bucket.

Caitlin Russ [00:54:05]:
You you can do it.

Kenna Millea [00:54:07]:
can be in that bucket. Okay. So, I yeah. I'm I'm hearing a couple things kind of rise out of this, Caitlin, and then maybe we can turn the corner into your challenge by choice if you've got something for us. But, so so one is just noticing, like, embracing this reality that we are individuals, that god has created us uniquely and beautifully. And, also, by the way, that means it's work. Right? Like, it's it is work, and there is no magic answer. You can't just click on some website and it'll tell you exactly what your sensory diet or routine should be.

Caitlin Russ [00:54:40]:
There's no one size fits all.

Kenna Millea [00:54:42]:
Yeah. Yeah. So so that if this is something that feels like, you know, this could be helpful for my flourishing as a human, that my relationships, my relationship with the Lord, myself with others, my attentiveness to my vocation, whatever state of life I'm in could really benefit, from from more, of my presence, more of my ability to to really be receptive to what god is asking of me in those places. If you're thinking about considering some of these skills and strategies that Caitlin is sharing, it starts with noticing. So that's one piece. And then the second is, yeah, to look at, and and maybe Caitlin, if you've got some resources that we could link up that give the definitions of the different, particularly those three senses that are newer to us, that that could help us to identify, yeah, what are those more, activating, arousing kinds of input, what help calm, you know, in all these different senses, just to get to know yourself. And then that piece of really being challenged to follow through, to be accountable, and and to go, you know what? I'm a grown up. And if I if I want to live this full life, I've got to cooperate, with the way that God has designed me.

Kenna Millea [00:56:00]:
So, yeah. So what in a challenge by choice, can you narrow that down maybe even even more?

Caitlin Russ [00:56:03]:
I mean, yeah. You kinda had the full challenge by choice laid out paragraph form there.

Kenna Millea [00:56:07]:
Sorry. I didn't mean to steal your thunder.

Caitlin Russ [00:56:08]:
No. Well, you you synthesized it much better than I could have.

Kenna Millea [00:56:12]:
Oh, man. Okay. We'll recap it for us then.

Caitlin Russ [00:56:15]:
I would say if you the challenge by choice this week is to look at, over the week, the different sensory input that you have taken onto your body and what caused you to get pushed over the edge, and what brought you back down. So did you go on a walk that calmed you down, or did you listen to music too loud that sets you off over the edge and really try to tune into what are 3 things that do push me over the edge, and then what are 3 things that can reground me or set me up for success for the day. Is it morning yoga? Is it a good cup of coffee in the silence? Yes. What do you need to set you up in a sensory regulatory way to just let you be a 100% ready for that, whatever God's asking of you that day.

Kenna Millea [00:57:08]:
Yeah. Okay. Okay. That is beautiful. So we will write up that challenge by choice as always in the show notes as well, and we can link some things

Caitlin Russ [00:57:16]:
Absolutely.

Kenna Millea [00:57:17]:
Some resources maybe that you have for us, because I imagine that there's a lot of this that as OT becomes more, kind of commonplace and people are learning more about it, it's becoming prescribed way more often for adults and children, that there is just more information out there.

Caitlin Russ [00:57:36]:
Yes.

Kenna Millea [00:57:36]:
So let's help our listeners tap into that. So why don't I pray for us, Caitlin, to wrap out this episode and and we can finish up here. In the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Amen. Heavenly Father, thank you for this day, for all that it is presented to us, for the the different, yeah, ways you've spoken to us through our senses, through this created world around us. Thank you for the ways that you've spoken to us through our own reaction to that. You are always teaching us about you and about ourselves, each moment, each day. Thank you, Lord.

Kenna Millea [00:58:22]:
I give you thanks for Caitlin. I ask you to bless her work and the ways that she desires to, help other families, children, adults, to really flourish and to to know a life of of meaning and of purpose. And I pray that that's what can come for us increasingly so in listening today. We surrender all of our our work to you, Lord. We hand it over to you and trust that it will glorify you, and we place all of this at the foot of the cross. In your holy name. Amen. In the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Kenna Millea [00:59:01]:
Amen. Well, thank you so much, Caitlin, for, yeah, giving us the time and just giving us a peek into this wealth of knowledge that you have. So we will continue to pray for you, that your work blesses those that that you get to serve. And thank you listeners for being with us today. I I imagine there's someone that you know who could benefit from hearing this, that they themselves or someone that they want to help co regulate could benefit from this message. And so would you be so kind as to share this episode with them, to subscribe if you aren't already, to get on our email list at thiswholelifepodcast.com so that you'll know exactly when these episodes drop because there is awesome stuff just like what you've heard today still coming. And until next time, God bless you. This Whole Life is a production of the Martin Center For Integration.

Kenna Millea [00:59:57]:
Visit us online at thiswholelifepodcast.com. It does not seem to be registering, on here, check check 12. Nope. It's not registering. Does it have mine at all? No. Nothing? It doesn't. So let me think this through. Okay.