Ep52 Surviving Family Trips

"In your journey as a family, you share so many beautiful moments: meals, rest, housework, leisure, prayer, trips and pilgrimages, and times of mutual support…"
~ Pope Francis, Letter to Families, February 2014

Do you feel like you need a vacation to recover from your vacation?
Have you spent time and money on trips that leave you feeling disappointed & frustrated?
Do you have nightmares of children shouting "Are we there yet?" and arguments with relatives?

Family trips and vacations are sources of such deep joy and fulfillment, but they can also bring so much stress, anxiety, and conflict. What strategies & approaches would help you get the most out of trips with family and friends? On the heels of a cross country road trip with their 7 children to spend a week with extended family, Pat & Kenna share some practical ways to make family trips more fruitful and peaceful. From communication about expectations and hopes to embracing healthy boundaries and car entertainment, we welcome you into this relevant and practical conversation. Listen in and share your own traveling tips & tricks with us!

Episode 52 Show Notes

Chapters:
0:00: Intro & This or That?: Movie edition
16:48: Highs & Hards
24:08: The joys & stresses of family trips
28:10: Communicating hopes & fears before the trip
35:51: Expectations & Boundaries on a trip
46:20: Final practical tips for trips
55:42: Challenge By Choice

Questions for Reflection & Discussion:

1. What is one specific thing that stuck with you from this conversation?
2. What memories do you have of trips you took growing up? What parts of those memories are joyful or painful?
3. What do you appreciate about trips as an adult? What makes trips with family or friends stressful or difficult to manage?
4. Why do you take trips? What values of yours are attached to trips with loved ones?
5. How can communication about expectations and boundaries help create a more joyful trip?
6. What tips & strategies have made your family trips more joyful?

Thank you for listening! Visit us online at thiswholelifepodcast.com, and send us an email with your thoughts, questions, or ideas.

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Interested in more faith-filled mental health resources? Check out the Martin Center for Integration

Music: "You're Not Alone" by Marie Miller. Used with permission.

Chapters

• 0:00 Intro & This or That?: Movie edition
• 16:48 Highs & Hards
• 24:08 The joys & stresses of family trips
• 28:10 Communicating hopes & fears before the trip
• 35:51 Expectations & Boundaries on a trip
• 46:20 Final practical tips for trips
• 55:42 Challenge By Choice

Transcript

Pat Millea [00:00:00]:
We are not going on a vacation. We're having a family trip. And there's so much beauty in that. And the nice thing about accepting the expectations is I can ex I can appreciate and acknowledge the beauty of the experience instead of comparing it to this illusion that I've created in my mind.

Kenna Millea [00:00:24]:
Welcome to This Whole Life, a podcast for all of us seeking sanity and sanctity, and a place to find joy and meaning through the integration of faith and mental health. I'm Kenna Millea, a licensed marriage and family therapist, and I'm with my husband, Pat Millea, a Catholic speaker, musician, and leader. We invite you to our kitchen table. Okay. Not literally, but but you're definitely invited into the conversations that we seem to keep having once the kids have scattered off to play and we're left doing the dishes. We're excited to share this podcast for educational purposes. It is not intended as therapy or as a substitute for mental health care. So let's get talking about This Whole Life.

Kenna Millea [00:01:16]:
Welcome back to This Whole Life. Welcome everyone to another episode of me and my man, Pat Millea. Your man. Good morning. Good morning.

Pat Millea [00:01:27]:
That's my favorite title to go by.

Kenna Millea [00:01:29]:
Is it? Kenna's man. Are you being facetious?

Pat Millea [00:01:31]:
A little bit. Yeah. It is What? It is my it's one of my favorite earthly identities. It would just be really funny if somebody called me Kenna's man.

Kenna Millea [00:01:38]:
Well, no one calls you that.

Pat Millea [00:01:39]:
I I

Kenna Millea [00:01:40]:
I don't think anyone refers to you as such

Pat Millea [00:01:42]:
I do guarantee you a lot of people just call me Kenna's husband. I guarantee.

Kenna Millea [00:01:47]:
I've never heard it. Anyway, welcome

Pat Millea [00:01:50]:
Hi.

Kenna Millea [00:01:51]:
To this episode not on marital communication or conflict.

Pat Millea [00:01:55]:
It kind of is actually about marital communication and conflict.

Kenna Millea [00:01:59]:
Maybe I would say everything we do here has to do with supporting communication in our families, in those relationships that are most important to us. And, yeah, today we are gonna talk about the awesome awesome gift that is vacation, trips, time away, and how to bump that up a notch, by preparing well, debriefing well, how to manage family trips. But before we go there, you told me you gave me some fair warning. You threatened me that there is there is a game. You like to call them games and it implies that they're gonna be fun. And you told me

Pat Millea [00:02:38]:
It might also imply that there's a winner and I don't think there there's certainly not a winner in my mind in this.

Kenna Millea [00:02:43]:
You're always the winner when we play games.

Pat Millea [00:02:44]:
You may think that you lose no matter what we do when we play these games because I like them and you don't. But I think our listeners like them or

Kenna Millea [00:02:52]:
at least

Pat Millea [00:02:53]:
I've been told they do.

Kenna Millea [00:02:54]:
There's always gotta be a good cop and a bad cop. And I'll just be the bad cop when it comes to games. So what's the game? Lay it on me, man.

Pat Millea [00:03:00]:
What's the what's the TV show where, the dad tells the kid, like, no. No. Don't do that. We're not playing good cop mom. That's Okay.

Kenna Millea [00:03:07]:
That's, Modern Family.

Pat Millea [00:03:08]:
Is that Modern Family? Okay.

Kenna Millea [00:03:09]:
That's right.

Pat Millea [00:03:09]:
That's a Phil Dunphy situation? Yeah. Yes. We're not playing good cop mom here.

Kenna Millea [00:03:13]:
Yes. Absolutely. Thanks. Thanks for just, like, naming the elephant in the room because that is what life feels like. Anyway, different episode.

Pat Millea [00:03:26]:
Okay. So we are gonna play, a game of This or That. K. We've done that before with movies. Yeah. And we offended people with our Beatles takes. But, we're gonna play oh, I'm sorry. We did it before with music.

Pat Millea [00:03:40]:
Did I say movies?

Kenna Millea [00:03:41]:
Yeah. We're doing it today with movies.

Pat Millea [00:03:43]:
We're doing it today with movies.

Kenna Millea [00:03:44]:
Spoiler.

Pat Millea [00:03:44]:
That was my Freudian slip right there. Okay. So we're doing it today with movies. It's gonna connect to our highs and hards later on as to why we're doing movies today. But Oh. Very simple game. I'm gonna give you 2 movies.

Kenna Millea [00:03:57]:
K.

Pat Millea [00:03:57]:
You have to tell me which one you prefer. Okay.

Kenna Millea [00:03:59]:
Here we go.

Pat Millea [00:04:00]:
Starting off strong in a genre that you and I are very familiar with right now, kids movies

Kenna Millea [00:04:05]:
k.

Pat Millea [00:04:06]:
Frozen or Inside Out?

Kenna Millea [00:04:09]:
Oh, well, I'm just gonna say Frozen because of the music. I feel like Frozen gives me just a little more because it gets to live on through my radio throughout the week.

Pat Millea [00:04:24]:
I think many parents would say Inside Out because of the music of Frozen and how it has infiltrated every corner of their life.

Kenna Millea [00:04:34]:
They need a break.

Pat Millea [00:04:36]:
Yeah. I it's really I I I I don't know if I can pick. Honestly, I I think it's kind of a tie for me.

Kenna Millea [00:04:43]:
Like You just broke your cardinal rule this game, Millea. What is up with this? Round 1, Pat abandons the rules.

Pat Millea [00:04:51]:
I even put it together, and I wasn't ready for it. See, the thing is, like, Inside Out is, like, beautiful especially the first one, like, beautifully, like, heartfelt, emotional, super insightful. I think it's a great glimpse into, like, development and family dynamics and emotional well-being, and it it's just so good. But Frozen has the special place in my heart especially with our family as like the first time I took our oldest daughter to a movie theater when she was like 4 years old, and every kid now has kind of grown up in the Frozen era, so our family loves it. I don't know. I'm gonna go I'm agonizing. I'm just gonna say Frozen and

Kenna Millea [00:05:34]:
Yeah.

Pat Millea [00:05:34]:
I'm gonna be angry about it later on probably. But, okay.

Kenna Millea [00:05:37]:
Go with it. Go with it.

Pat Millea [00:05:39]:
The anger in my brain is flaring up. Okay. Number 2, this is a category that is dear to your heart and not really to mine. K. Favorite Julia Roberts movie Mhmm. Or better Julia Roberts movie.

Kenna Millea [00:05:49]:
I'm so curious which 2 you choose. This will say so much about you.

Pat Millea [00:05:52]:
My Best Friend's Wedding

Kenna Millea [00:05:54]:
k.

Pat Millea [00:05:54]:
Or Pretty Woman.

Kenna Millea [00:05:56]:
Oh, My Best Friend's Wedding. Hands down.

Pat Millea [00:05:57]:
Yeah. Okay.

Kenna Millea [00:05:58]:
Yeah. Great. A 100%.

Pat Millea [00:05:59]:
I think that's just the right answer. You But I'm not I am on record as saying I do not care for Julia Roberts as an actor. I'm sure she's a wonderful person.

Kenna Millea [00:06:08]:
Julia, if you're listening, don't listen to him.

Pat Millea [00:06:11]:
Julia, if you're listening, please share this on social media.

Kenna Millea [00:06:14]:
He is not representative of the Millea household.

Pat Millea [00:06:17]:
Yeah. My best friend's wedding by a mile to me too. Yeah. So good. Alright. Next

Kenna Millea [00:06:22]:
Again, with the music. Anyway, okay. Keep going.

Pat Millea [00:06:23]:
With the music?

Kenna Millea [00:06:24]:
Oh, don't worry. We'll listen. I'll I'll regale you with the soundtrack tonight. That was an open door.

Pat Millea [00:06:30]:
The only thing I know about the music, about the soundtrack is the very first song during the opening credits is that ridiculous over the top cutesy, like, song about weddings and love and whatever. And the singer of it is Ani DiFranco, Oh. Who is a musician that I really appreciate musically, but not morally. And she is, like, the op I'm sure they picked her ironically. Like, she is the opposite of anything to do with marriage, love

Kenna Millea [00:06:56]:
Yeah.

Pat Millea [00:06:57]:
Happiness. Yes. Yes. Anyway. Alright. Sports movies. K? Rudy

Kenna Millea [00:07:04]:
k.

Pat Millea [00:07:05]:
Or Miracle?

Kenna Millea [00:07:07]:
I know that the technical right answer should be Rudy, but I would say I don't know. There's something about Miracle. I I think there's something of what was the coach's name?

Pat Millea [00:07:20]:
Herb Brooks.

Kenna Millea [00:07:20]:
Herb Brooks. Yeah. He just he's my spirit animal in a coach. Like, I just I'm like, I could see myself being again. Again. Like, I could just done that before with our kids. Just see myself in Herb Brooks's place, and I'd be like, yeah. He did it exactly right.

Kenna Millea [00:07:37]:
So, yeah, I love that. Love that.

Pat Millea [00:07:41]:
Not many people who watch that scene of Miracle with the postgame hour long line skating and they sympathize with the coach. Right. Look how hard it is for him to deal with these bratty little players.

Kenna Millea [00:07:55]:
I'm like they have ticked him off, okay?

Pat Millea [00:07:58]:
Not only is Rudy the right answer, it's just the better movie. Now here's the thing. I bet if you pulled the audience, probably the majority of people would say that Miracle is the better movie. I I love you if you're listening and that's your opinion. You're just wrong about that, And I am the least objective person. Miracle is a great movie, by the way. I think it's one of, like, the the top 20 movies that our family has has watched. But Rudy is just great.

Pat Millea [00:08:27]:
Not only is it Notre Dame, which is the Lord's University, but,

Kenna Millea [00:08:32]:
it's

Pat Millea [00:08:33]:
The classic it's the the French technical term. It's Our Lady. I'm I'm kidding. It's the classic underdog story. It's not about, like, achievement in the sense of winning a championship. It's just about doing the literal best you can do even when nobody thinks that you can do anything right. You know, like overcoming poverty and expectations and whatever. And, like, the speech from his groundskeeper buddy in the stadium is, like, one of the greatest cinematic moments in history as far as I'm concerned.

Kenna Millea [00:09:06]:
That is also a soundtrack that lives on in our household. Three hundred and 65 days a year.

Pat Millea [00:09:11]:
And you know what we're getting around the corner to as we record today?

Kenna Millea [00:09:15]:
I know.

Pat Millea [00:09:15]:
We're about a month away from the annual Rudy watching.

Kenna Millea [00:09:19]:
As our son picked up his football equipment last night.

Pat Millea [00:09:21]:
Correct.

Kenna Millea [00:09:22]:
Okay. What's next? Lay it on me.

Pat Millea [00:09:24]:
Better Tom Hanks movie

Kenna Millea [00:09:26]:
Okay.

Pat Millea [00:09:26]:
Catch Me If You Can or A League of Their Own?

Kenna Millea [00:09:30]:
Oh, Catch Me If You Can. Honestly, I don't even know that I've seen A League of Their Own all the way through. Really? Yeah. And recently, I feel like you did you watch it again? And you were like, oh, there's a lot of language.

Pat Millea [00:09:39]:
I've never seen any of it.

Kenna Millea [00:09:41]:
Oh, okay.

Pat Millea [00:09:42]:
Well, I know the key lines, but I've just, I I've never seen it.

Kenna Millea [00:09:46]:
Yeah. So I'm going to say catch me if you can. I just, it is so smart. It is so fun. It is just keeps me on the edge of my seat, but it's not the kind of thriller that, like, makes me lose sleep at night kind of thing. A lot of them do. I'll be honest. So, yeah, catch me if you can.

Pat Millea [00:10:01]:
Gotcha. I thought you had seen a league of their own. That's why I picked that one. But, I thought you liked that movie for some reason. No. I get to know you better every day. That's great. Yeah.

Pat Millea [00:10:11]:
Catch me if you can, basically, because I haven't seen

Kenna Millea [00:10:13]:
that one. We haven't seen it in a while though.

Pat Millea [00:10:15]:
It's like I I should be sure League of their Own is really good. I mean, it's famous for a reason. But, yeah, we should we should watch it someday. Okay. Speaking of Tom Hanks, kind of better Pixar movie.

Kenna Millea [00:10:25]:
Okay.

Pat Millea [00:10:26]:
Toy Story or Finding Nemo?

Kenna Millea [00:10:30]:
Finding Nemo.

Pat Millea [00:10:31]:
Yeah?

Kenna Millea [00:10:32]:
Yeah. I mean, I I I know there are deeper themes in Toy Story, but they're more accessible to me in Finding Nemo. And I do kinda love that, like, urban myth that's out there. Someone wants to confirm or deny this for us that the characters of Finding Nemo are all based on different, mental disorders. Mhmm. So various DSM diagnoses. So that totally intrigues me and whether that is actually true or not, that they like had therapists in the writing room.

Pat Millea [00:11:02]:
Right.

Kenna Millea [00:11:03]:
Handing over symptomology, like, it definitely lines up. And so that's just fun for me to see in this, like, very caricatured way.

Pat Millea [00:11:10]:
Yeah.

Kenna Millea [00:11:11]:
That totally gets my my mind moving.

Pat Millea [00:11:13]:
I have heard that too. And, again, I I I have no facts to base it on, but I've heard that assessment before of even just broadly disabilities. Like, Nemo has a physical disability.

Kenna Millea [00:11:23]:
Mhmm.

Pat Millea [00:11:24]:
Dory has, memory, mental, cognitive disability. There's the I don't even remember all the characters, but the one, fish in the fish tank is, like, OCD, and he's constantly cleaning everything.

Kenna Millea [00:11:34]:
Right. And the dad has anxiety. Yep.

Pat Millea [00:11:36]:
And there's Maybe post traumatic stress. Like, the boss fish in the fish tank

Pat Millea [00:11:44]:
has PTSD because he was attacked out in the open, so he doesn't want to go back out there or something like that. It's just yeah. So I've heard that too. It's really it's really cool. Okay.

Kenna Millea [00:11:50]:
So what's your answer?

Pat Millea [00:11:51]:
I think I agree. Yeah. Finding Nemo? Toy Story is great, and it's kind of timeless. But I think Finding Nemo is better. Better Jim Carrey movie.

Kenna Millea [00:11:59]:
K.

Pat Millea [00:12:00]:
Yes Man or The Truman Show?

Kenna Millea [00:12:03]:
Oh. Oh, those are both so good. What's so funny is when you said Jim Carrey, I was like, I'm not a really big Jim Carrey fan. And then you named those 2 movies, and I'm like, I love those movies.

Pat Millea [00:12:11]:
That was exactly my thought process for you specifically.

Kenna Millea [00:12:15]:
I'm gonna say The Truman Show. Yeah. I'm gonna say the Truman Show. Yes Man is like more entertaining to me. I would say Truman Show was like more thought provoking and, yeah, just like intellectually stimulating for me. And I think Jim Carrey does a great job in both of those. Yeah. What about you?

Pat Millea [00:12:35]:
Yeah. I agree.

Kenna Millea [00:12:36]:
Oh, really?

Pat Millea [00:12:36]:
It it's it's closer than most.

Kenna Millea [00:12:38]:
I Yeah.

Pat Millea [00:12:38]:
If you looked I'm sure if you looked at the Rotten Tomatoes scores, The Truman Show is probably double the score of Yes Man. It's it's not Yes, Man is not like a great movie, but it is a sneaky It's good favorite movie for us.

Kenna Millea [00:12:51]:
We also love Zooey Deschanel, so that helps.

Pat Millea [00:12:53]:
Right. And years ago, you and I got the idea from the movie Yes Man.

Kenna Millea [00:12:58]:
No. No. You, Good Cop, got the idea from Yes Man. And you're gonna give the audience a 30 second abridged version

Pat Millea [00:13:05]:
30 second abridged version. The movie Yes Man, they want to say that he's agrees to say yes to everything. He's gonna be totally spontaneous, do everything that is presented to him. So he and his little girlfriend just go to the airport and they say give me a ticket for the first plane out of this airport and they end up having a great adventurous weekend in Lincoln, Nebraska. Right? So I think that's an awesome idea. Turns out post 9/11, you can't do that. Just roll up to the counter at the airport and say give me a plane ticket please with no luggage. So, what we did instead was have my sister randomly select a destination for us.

Pat Millea [00:13:44]:
She booked our tickets with our money, but didn't tell us where we were going. So we just had to show up at the airport

Kenna Millea [00:13:49]:
Ready for any ready

Pat Millea [00:13:50]:
for anything in the middle of the summer. So we could have been going to Arizona or Maine or anywhere in between. We had swimsuits, we had sweatshirts, and we didn't know until we checked in with our credit card at the airport kiosk where we were going, and we ended up in

Kenna Millea [00:14:07]:
Spokane, Washington. Ladies and gentlemen, we had no hotels, no car rental, no plans, no ideas. God bless the iPhone at that time in our life.

Pat Millea [00:14:17]:
It was so fun.

Kenna Millea [00:14:18]:
And if anyone wonders why I just get to be bad cop slash mom all the time, they just figured it out. Like, this is the brain that I live with, ladies and gentlemen. Like, this man, these are the things that he thinks about, what he brings to our family meetings.

Pat Millea [00:14:31]:
But when was your time to shine? When we were sitting at the airport gate and all of a sudden reviews. Gets to review hotels. She gets to look at restaurants. She gets to set an agenda. Yeah. It was our powers combined. Thank you very much.

Kenna Millea [00:14:45]:
It was a good 5 days.

Pat Millea [00:14:46]:
So anyway, the Truman show is better, but yes, man is close to my heart. Alright. Final one. Better Christian Bale movie. There are many to choose from. Very few that you have seen or appreciate.

Kenna Millea [00:14:58]:
Oh, I can name two!

Pat Millea [00:14:59]:
Which 2?

Kenna Millea [00:15:01]:
Newsies and Batman.

Pat Millea [00:15:03]:
Very good. Yeah. Nice.

Kenna Millea [00:15:04]:
Yeah. Very good. Is that what you got? Oh, okay.

Pat Millea [00:15:06]:
Okay. Ford versus Ferrari or Newsies?

Kenna Millea [00:15:10]:
Okay. I've never seen have I seen that?

Pat Millea [00:15:12]:
Yes. You have.

Kenna Millea [00:15:12]:
Did I watch it? Oh, no. Oh, no.

Pat Millea [00:15:16]:
You saw it and you enjoyed it, I might add.

Kenna Millea [00:15:19]:
Did I really? Clearly, we're gonna I'm gonna guess I enjoyed it. I love those kinds of movies. I do love those kinds of movies. I'm gonna say this is really crazy. I'm gonna say Ford versus Ferrari just based on what I understand the content.

Pat Millea [00:15:32]:
That type of movie.

Kenna Millea [00:15:33]:
Yes. I'm gonna go with that. Newsies is like fine. Honestly, I like it because you love it so much and our kids have come to love it so much. So, and again, the music. So I like it, but it's not really a storyline that grips me. So you, Newsies?

Pat Millea [00:15:46]:
Obviously. Clearly, Newsies is the right answer.

Kenna Millea [00:15:49]:
What I I I'm I'm so glad you said there were no winners or losers, Pat. I can't wait to play the next game with you.

Pat Millea [00:15:54]:
Christian Bale has done a a million great movies, but Newsies is close to the top as far as I'm concerned. It's just

Kenna Millea [00:15:59]:
I cannot wait to hear the responses that people have to this show.

Pat Millea [00:16:03]:
Baby Christian Bale when he was, like, 20 years old. Oh, my gosh. He would grow up to be American Psycho and Batman, but Newsies. That's the role that really got him started.

Kenna Millea [00:16:13]:
Everything else was downhill.

Pat Millea [00:16:15]:
And don't come at me with this, like, Broadway musical version. I got no time for that. I need classic King of New York, Santa Fe, Seize the Day. I need people spinning on fans in the ceiling of a random, like, diner. It's just it's the greatest movie ever. That's an exaggeration. I don't even think that, but it's a really good movie.

Kenna Millea [00:16:35]:
Yes. It is.

Pat Millea [00:16:37]:
Oh, man. Well, that was fun. Thanks for playing Are we done? We're done.

Kenna Millea [00:16:40]:
I can okay. I'm gonna wipe the sweat from my brow.

Pat Millea [00:16:43]:
Relax, and you can get down to business.

Kenna Millea [00:16:45]:
Yes. I can. We're gonna accomplish something, people. Okay. But before we work, now I'll put you in the hot seat. High and hard.

Pat Millea [00:16:51]:
I have to go first.

Kenna Millea [00:16:52]:
You really do.

Pat Millea [00:16:53]:
Okay. High and hard

Kenna Millea [00:16:54]:
of life lately. So we haven't been together in a while. I know. I was actually looking forward to this morning. I was getting ready. I was like, I am excited to hear what he has to say.

Pat Millea [00:17:02]:
Well, you were a part of my high. So, this past Friday, we got to go see Inside Out 2, which was the inspiration for our this or that game that we just played. So we in our our organization the Martin Center for Integration, we brought our staff to go see Inside Out 2 as, like, an exercise in kind of a a secular approach to understanding mental health and emotional wellness and,

Kenna Millea [00:17:30]:
the celebration of the feast day.

Pat Millea [00:17:31]:
And the celebration of the feast of saints Louis and Zelie Martin, Martin, probably. Yes. Who were the parents of Saint Therese of Lisieux. So the organization is named after their family. It was their feast day. Let's go see a movie. And it was so fun and so great. And the movie was really good.

Kenna Millea [00:17:47]:
Good. Yeah. It was so fun.

Pat Millea [00:17:49]:
It wasn't, like, as emotionally striking as the first movie, which is probably good because I don't need to cry in front of all my coworkers too much. But it was really smart and really clever and I think really well done in terms of approach and everything.

Kenna Millea [00:18:03]:
Do you want to tell you on your your shining moment? Oh, or will that that'll be a spoiler. Let's not do that.

Pat Millea [00:18:07]:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We'll talk way more about Inside Out 2 at some point. Yes.

Kenna Millea [00:18:10]:
It'll be fine. I know. There is a request on the table actually, for us to do a whole episode. So maybe when Father Nathan gets back, he's on pilgrimage right now. But when he gets back, we can put an episode together.

Pat Millea [00:18:21]:
That sounds great.

Kenna Millea [00:18:21]:
Because I know he's got a lot to say as well.

Pat Millea [00:18:23]:
Both Inside Outs. Yeah. That'll be good.

Kenna Millea [00:18:24]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Pat Millea [00:18:25]:
Yeah. Yeah. Your hard.

Pat Millea [00:18:26]:
So that was my high. My hard was, and it's not a a bad hard, but we're coming now into the teenage years of our parenting journey and that includes kids getting so boys specifically for us getting more and more interested in sports and trying to start conversations, about family priorities, about schedules, getting into possible travel sports down the road next year at some point, navigating all the different kind of ins and outs and and competing values when it comes to activities, trying to make sure that we are parenting all of our children equally and giving them all, as as best we can, equal time, attention, focus, things like that.

Kenna Millea [00:19:10]:
Money.

Pat Millea [00:19:11]:
Money. Kind of. Yeah. So it's not bad. Like, these are all great things. Our our boys so far love playing sports, and it's something that we really love to support in them to the extent that it helps them grow and develop into the kind of people God made them to be. Our oldest daughter is beautifully creative and attentive with her friendships and loves music and has dreams about, you know, composing or something later in life, whatever.

Kenna Millea [00:19:41]:
Writing.

Pat Millea [00:19:41]:
So Yeah. Yeah. So it's just lots lots of good conversations.

Kenna Millea [00:19:44]:
Little girls are just too little.

Pat Millea [00:19:46]:
Little girls love

Kenna Millea [00:19:47]:
Playing in the dirt.

Pat Millea [00:19:48]:
And, yeah, who's playing in the dirt.

Kenna Millea [00:19:50]:
At said baseball.

Pat Millea [00:19:52]:
Fighting over toys, whatever career path that leads him to. So you and I have just had lots of difficult but really good conversations about like, alright, if if these are our family values that we're looking at on the wall over here, how can we arrange the the details of our life so that they match those values Yeah. And they don't depart from those values? So it was really good. Mhmm.

Kenna Millea [00:20:13]:
Yeah. And, I mean, it came down to some concrete things this weekend when one of our sons was late for a game because we went to Mass, the earliest Mass we could literally find in the Twin Cities because his game started at an ungodly hour. And he missed part of the game, and we got an email from the coach, where are you? What's going on? You know, all that. And just that being a moment to say to our boys like this is the future like you can expect that this will always come first and they were fine with it. I imagine as they get older, it's gonna be harder as the stakes get higher. This is 9 year old baseball tournament. Yeah. Right.

Kenna Millea [00:20:45]:
But, yeah, that that got really real fast for us this weekend. Thank you for sharing.

Pat Millea [00:20:52]:
And you, my love.

Kenna Millea [00:20:54]:
Yes. So I'm gonna I'll start with my hard and that is that, among many things that have been topics of conversation in our life lately, one is the reality that, the the trial for the man who is accused of of driving the vehicle that killed my sister is coming up. And it's just brought up so many questions again around, like, what does real healing look like, and what do each of us need, for healing and for continuing to accept reality for what it is, to live in the hope of eternal life, and that this actually you know, this question of, like, are we going to the trial? You know, how are we going to engage with the, like, the justice system and the proceedings around this, like, has brought up the fact that you and I need different things right now related to it, and and how do we negotiate that and support that and how does all that tie into our vocations as spouses and parents. And so maybe actually parallel to all the sporting and activities conversation just like putting all these puzzle pieces together and all these goods that exist in our life. And yet this is a finite life with finite time, finite money, finite energy, like, so so how do we bring all these things together? And so that has just been the hard of certainly the emotions and the weight of it, but honestly just like the the space in life that it takes up and and that I want to give it and, that it it needs in order to really be healing. So, yeah, that has definitely been a hard Yeah. I would say my high is, that it's it's the summer and it is so easy. I mean, literally this morning, I will I no.

Kenna Millea [00:22:46]:
I didn't wake up too, but I came up from the basement. I was working out and I came up from the basement to kids fighting. Right? It's before 7 o'clock and they're already fighting and welcome to summer. And, and, also, they are they have so many moments of just loving each other so beautifully, helping one another out. You know, this weekend, we had one daughter who helped another sister, like, go to sleep, and she this little toddler had just been making us feel batty. And we checked in and and because we were out at a baseball game and our daughter's like, yeah. She's in bed. She's asleep.

Kenna Millea [00:23:23]:
Like, she's peaceful. And we're like, oh. So just like these sweet moments among them, that definitely helped to counteract the that I feel sometimes about their interactions. So that has just yeah. In in in these days where I'm like, 7 children, what were we thinking? Lord, what were you thinking? And then there are these sweet things, ways that they love and serve each other that I'm like, yeah. Like, that is such a gift, and it just brings so much joy to my heart. So Mhmm. That is my high.

Pat Millea [00:23:55]:
Amen. Yes. Turns out God knows exactly what he's doing.

Kenna Millea [00:23:59]:
He does. He does. I don't always get it in the moment.

Pat Millea [00:24:01]:
You could remind me of that the next time I don't understand. Yes. That would help everybody out.

Kenna Millea [00:24:05]:
Yes. Yes. So now that we are sufficiently warmed up, I had this idea when we were on vacation about a week ago, a little over a week ago. And I was having all these thoughts about ways that you and I, Pat, have come to prepare for trips beyond trips together as a family, and then come back and really kinda squeeze out the goodness and the learning Mhmm. And the growth. And so I was like, what if we just throw in an episode and you had a lovely lineup of episodes that you thought we should roll out here on the podcast? And I was like, let's just squeeze one more in. So tada, here is the brainchild. So, this reality that like certainly in the summer, definitely over the holidays, but maybe all year long, you know, we as families, we as individuals are are taking time away from the everyday life.

Kenna Millea [00:25:03]:
Some might call it a grind, to go do these exciting, exceptional, meaningful things, weddings, funerals, family trips, vacations, spending holidays together, you know, going to that place that's always so special to our family. Like, we're doing that. We're we're taking time. We're taking money. We're taking energy to go do those things. And sometimes for us, we have come back and been like, it maybe just would have been better if we had stayed home. Like, we we just feel like, what were we thinking?

Pat Millea [00:25:34]:
Like that cliche of, like, I am more exhausted after vacation than I was before we left.

Kenna Millea [00:25:40]:
Yeah. What's it that? Like, I need a vacation from my vacation. I need a vacation after my vacation. And we were just, like, like, several years ago, we were, like, let's stop that insanity. Like, that is no good, no fun, and certainly not beneficial to our mental health, to our relational health. So, yeah. So I wanna just talk about some of the things that, through my own study and my work with clients and then we've been guinea pigs and tried things out on our own, like, that we've come to find are some best practices. And I'm curious, we haven't actually discussed these altogether yet.

Kenna Millea [00:26:08]:
So I'm curious, like, what you think and and how yeah. What you think about that?

Pat Millea [00:26:13]:
Well, and I'm excited to to put it in those terms that you were talking about in terms of mental health. Right? That, you know, like we've said a million times on this podcast and in other places, mental health is not just avoiding clinical anxiety or clinical depression. Mental health through a lens of faith is about embracing and and working toward a life that is thriving and is is the kind of integrated life mind body and spirit that the Lord created us for. Right? And if there is any practical threat to the mental and emotional health of a family or even an individual I would say a good old fashioned road trip might be that thing. Right? And there are so many classic cliches of like kids fighting in the back seat and the dad, like, I'll turn this car around. Like, people are tense and anxious and upset and flights get delayed and extended family has different expectations and values than than our family does. And, like, on and on and on and on, the stress of the holidays, the difficulty of travel, packing for little kids, you just you name it. There are all kinds of threats and landmines that are in the midst of something that we think should be so fun.

Pat Millea [00:27:25]:
Yeah. It's a vacation. Yeah. It's Disney or it's the beach or it's the cabin or whatever the thing is. You know? So what are the ways that we can approach the expectations, the boundaries, the values, even the practical preparation to make a trip, to make a vacation as fruitful, as peaceful as possible even in the midst of some of those difficulties when they come up.

Kenna Millea [00:27:47]:
Yeah. Yeah. No. For sure. And as the queen of anticipatory fun, I am notorious for having really big expectations of, like, what can happen, you know, how this is gonna change us, how this is gonna grow us and bond us and all that. So yes. Absolutely. It's it's so much also about living in reality amidst those hopes.

Kenna Millea [00:28:08]:
Mhmm. So okay. So here's the first thing that came to my mind when I was thinking on this topic. Is that, several years ago, you and I got in the habit of having a conversation ahead of time about our hopes and fears Mhmm. Concerns, however you wanna say that. And so I'm thinking about, like, for for all of us all of you listening, like the next big trip event vacation, gathering. Like who is someone that like a key companion that you could talk this over with? Or if that doesn't feel comfortable journaling with it, what's the hope? What's the fear? And so oftentimes, you know, we'll work this into a family meeting, Pat, or sometimes even part of a date night, to, you know, to gear up, to be excited again, and also, to enlist the other for help in actualizing, like, things that would really be important. So, you know, I think just to say that, like, when we go on trips, when we go on vacations, we are out of our usual routine And nothing is really a guarantee.

Kenna Millea [00:29:15]:
Like unless you intentionally put it in and seek it. And so I think that's what this conversation has allowed us to do of, like, what are things that you want to be a part of the fabric of this trip, and and what are things that you're concerned could really diminish, like, the joy, the rest, the meaning of this for you? So, you know, what would be those key things that need to get put in there? I think for me, when I, when I consider these conversations, it's really helped me to understand, like, what matters most to you. Mhmm. And and I don't have shame in saying, like, I'm often surprised. Like, you and my husband, we've been together for a while now. 18 years. Yeah. 18 years.

Kenna Millea [00:29:59]:
And and I'm still surprised sometimes by like in that season, in that moment, like what actually brings you refreshment and rejuvenation. And instead of assuming and mind reading, like, to actually ask you and to solicit that feedback from you. Like, that is such a benefit of these conversations for me.

Pat Millea [00:30:15]:
Mhmm. And I really appreciate that those conversations give us the chance to be real about our expectations, to say those out loud, and then to hold those expectations up against reality. You know? I think the first really funny time that we came across this kind of idea was in an article that I'll put in the show notes that we read years ago about, the the difference between a family vacation and a family trip. Right? So, it's, again, I'll I'll put this in the show notes, but they're, getting really specific about that difference. Right? That people think they're going on vacation when really what they're doing is going on a trip. Right? And when they're clear about saying neither of those are bad things, but if you have visions in your mind of drinks with umbrellas in them and napping on the seashore and

Kenna Millea [00:31:04]:
you have a 1 year old

Pat Millea [00:31:05]:
and you have a 1 year old Let's do away with that illusion because that's not gonna work. Right? So things like if you're traveling by car, there's a good chance of your trip. If you can't see out the back window the entire time you're driving, trip. If you've heard yourself say, this will be fun, you are on a trip. If you've broken out the all we could afford to do growing up was go camping lecture, you are officially on a trip. Right? So who are you going with? If you're meeting extended families or in laws, please don't insult me. It's a trip. Where are you gonna stay? If your final destination has a kitchen, you are not on vacation.

Pat Millea [00:31:45]:
So it goes on and on and on. But the moral of the story is understanding what the realistic expectations are for this trip. If we are packing our 7 children and going across the country, we are not going on a vacation, we're having a family trip. And there's so much beauty in that. And the nice thing about accepting the expectations is I can ex I can appreciate and acknowledge the beauty of the experience instead of comparing it to this illusion that I've created in my mind.

Kenna Millea [00:32:16]:
Right. The all inclusive resort in the Dominican Republic. Correct. Exactly. And what you're actually doing is camping in a national state park.

Pat Millea [00:32:21]:
Correct. Exactly. Right. And I I love that that shift in our mindset was really helpful for me at least was was looking at what are the real expectations here you know what do you and I desire from this experience and what do we need to do in order to meet some of those very realistic expectations?

Kenna Millea [00:32:39]:
Yeah. Yeah. No. Definitely. And I think a concrete example then out of some recent trips that we have taken, which by the way, I I think you and I have recognized that anytime we're bringing our kids in it for the foreseeable future, like, we're taking trips. Right? Like Correct. We'll often say, like, here we go, parenting in a different context. Like, it's Exactly.

Kenna Millea [00:32:59]:
You don't you don't take a holiday from being a parent when you have your children with you.

Pat Millea [00:33:03]:
I will now be parenting over there Yes. Instead of in my house.

Kenna Millea [00:33:07]:
You and I have the tradition of taking a vacation together without children. We have incredible luxury

Pat Millea [00:33:14]:
Yeah.

Kenna Millea [00:33:14]:
Of making that a a habit for our anniversary every year. So we do have a trip or a vacation coming up, but, but by and large one with our kids we're on a trip. And so on a recent trip when I was asking you ahead of time like, hey, what would be a hope and a fear? A hope that you expressed was getting to spend, like, adult time with your siblings. And that meant late at night because it meant after all the kids had gone to bed. And the reality is we have little people who get up very early in the morning, especially in the summer when it's a sunny day.

Pat Millea [00:33:46]:
They don't care what time daddy went to bed. Yep.

Kenna Millea [00:33:48]:
And so the conversation was so helpful for for us to talk about, okay, what's realistic? I can't promise you, you know, late night hangouts for you and your sibs every night of the trip but I can definitely give you 1 or 2 of those in the in the span so that I know then I'm on for waking up early in the morning and, you know, being with those littles before you, allowing you to sleep in and catch some extra z's because you stayed up late the night before with your siblings, which is a beautiful thing and I wanna support that. But had we not had a conversation for you to name that, I would never have guessed that, honestly. I wouldn't have I would have thought, oh, we're with them all day long. Like, we're taking this trip with your family. Like, it'll be fine. But for you to say adult time, you know, to really just, like, know them in this season of life and and get to share things without little ears listening all the time. Like, that's meaningful for me. And I'm like, I love that.

Kenna Millea [00:34:41]:
I hope our kids are asking that someday, you know, when we go on family trips, when they're grownups. So that was super helpful. So so that was a hope you had. And then on the flip side, a concern, a fear, a worry that I had, which I will say is often my worry, is that we that I would come home more tired than when we left. Particularly this last trip that we took with your family where we drove through the night, which was amazing and so worked it works so well for our family. But but when I shared that with you, you would just, like, gently remind me on the trip, like, when our kids were laying down, like, hey, do you wanna do you wanna take a nap? Like, would this be a time that you wanna lay down, read a book, take a rest? I'll sit with the restless toddler. You go with more reliable nappers, you know, over there. And and so just to get that support from each other and to help each other, get those key elements in place, like, you're not gonna get it all.

Kenna Millea [00:35:35]:
Right? It's it's not gonna be pure umbrellas and drinks, you know, and dancing in the moonlight the whole time. But just a few of those key moments, can really help it to feel like, yeah, this was worth the effort. This is worth the sacrifice. Mhmm. Mhmm.

Pat Millea [00:35:51]:
I think one of the other things that's been, really helpful in conjunction with and sometimes separate from that expectations and needs conversation we were talking about is, being really open. How much of this is communication, by the way, that you're catching on with? Being really open and clear about, healthy boundaries, especially when you're traveling traveling with other people or spending time with people outside of your family of creation. Right? So anytime that you're with in laws or with extended family, there's this push and pull which is good and healthy in in any kind of family system where what our particular family needs throughout the course of these 4, 5, 6 days may not always be what everybody else is doing at all times, right? So we talked about this many episodes ago in the episode about managing difficult family relationships that if if I am going back into a family, this is not me, but if I'm going back into a family system that does not make worship and church a priority on the weekends then I'm gonna have to maybe set up a boundary that says you know what I'm going to church on Sunday morning I'm gonna have to meet you guys at the restaurant for brunch or whatever else is going on that day you know and being willing to live with any of the consequences that come from that. Now boundaries again for the thousandth time don't mean cut off, Boundaries don't mean I'm doing what I wanna do and I don't care how well that how it affects anybody else.

Kenna Millea [00:37:25]:
Sure.

Pat Millea [00:37:25]:
It does not mean that. What it means is how can I be my authentic self while remaining connected to the people that I love and care about? So it doesn't mean that I'm gonna spend the all 5 days of this trip doing my own thing or with my own family, and I'll see you at dinner time and nothing else. What it means is I'm gonna be as connected to you, my in laws, my extended family, my friends as possible. We're on this trip together for a reason. It's not to ignore you, but there may be times that my values dictate that I'm going to pray in the morning, or I'm going to to take a walk by myself in the afternoon because I need to get out of that much social input for a while. I need to go to bed earlier than everyone else because that's what my body and my mind need to be healthy. So being clear ahead of time about what my boundaries are, what our family's boundaries are gonna be, and then being open with other folks that it affects as well and saying, our schedule is gonna be a little bit different this day. It's important to me that we do spend a lot of time with you and here's the way that we can do that together.

Kenna Millea [00:38:31]:
Yeah. No. Totally. And I think that kinda segues into a second thing that I thought of. So if if having a conversation ahead of time or taking some time to reflect in advance on, man, what's what are some serious hopes and some concerns that I have related to this trip, could be done ahead of time than I would say during the trip. What let me back up. I think it's when we're traveling with other people, it can be so easy to fall into this either or trap. Kinda like you were saying, Pat, like either I do it my way a 100% of the time just the way I would when I when I'm at home or if I were on a trip by myself or I have to let go of everything that helps me feel refreshed and, and joyful and do it your way.

Kenna Millea [00:39:15]:
Right? Whether that's your way in laws, your way, you know, family of origin, whatever, friends. And so that door number 3, like, can we find that middle ground, that place that we've gotten to through some, you know, even if it's just mental internal negotiation, not necessarily even like out loud, but, to to compromise and to come to the middle, that it doesn't have to be either I don't get anything I want at all and do it just your way or I do it all my way and I'm, like you said, cut off disconnected from you. So so I think of it as like what would help this to be, this trip to be something that that takes care of myself. Right? That that is truly an act of self care so that when I go back, I can be present to my roles and my responsibilities with greater joy and generosity which comes out of our self care episode. So, you know, I was thinking about a trip we took recently with some friends and family and and I was like going on that trip probably into like day 2, I was feeling kind of resentful and aware that like we were spending our money and our vacation time, which we don't have like umpteen amounts of on this trip. And it wasn't going the way that I wanted. Like, I don't think I was getting my exercise time. I wasn't getting my prayer time, which are like super important to me.

Kenna Millea [00:40:35]:
They are my anchors. They are, like, what helped me stay grounded? And and I realized, like, what if I did? Like like, what if I did take 45 minutes, you know, while others are milling about and doing their thing, and and did that? Like, could that be okay? Would that be alright, that I could show up authentically around some of these things that I have really come to find helped me to be steady, helped me to be, you know, stable and and rooted. And so have given myself with in conversation with you, of course, but, like, given myself more permission to to do that and to not feel like I've gotta look around and be like, well, if if no one else is taking workout or prayer time, then I shouldn't. Mhmm. If no one else is, you know, going to bed early, well, then I shouldn't. The reality is, like, this is these are things that I need and and I'm gonna give in other places. I'm gonna be maybe, more flexible around other things. Let's say, when dinner is, you know, at home we are eat at a certain time, but when we're with others, we we bend, to maybe what they're accustomed to because we can do that.

Kenna Millea [00:41:40]:
But, yeah, just finding that third option, is such a helpful perspective to take.

Pat Millea [00:41:47]:
Mhmm. And being willing to to make the sacrifices necessary to do the things that that you might need to do to be healthy. Like, in theory, hypothetically, driving across the country to Texas, being willing to pack a mattress pad to go on the bed at the Airbnb.

Kenna Millea [00:42:04]:
For your insomniac wife.

Pat Millea [00:42:06]:
Being willing to pack, a foam roller so you can roll out the the confusingly tight muscles that you have all day every day, bring willing to to pack a couple of weights so that you can do your workouts. Right? And it's it's goofy. I like to poke fun about you with you about that, but that is the kind of thing that makes perfect sense and I'm very happy to do because that's a very small it's not even really an inconvenience for the sake of legitimate realistic benefit for you, you know. Yeah. Something like your your family beautifully has this great tradition of celebrating the 4th July at your dad's side of the family's cabin out in Wisconsin right And for many years, we have had little, little kids who the idea of spending the night in a foreign not foreign country. I mean, some people would call Wisconsin, but just in foreign circumstances in a different environment when there are fireworks beginning at 5 PM. All they want. It's not dark until 10 o'clock at night.

Pat Millea [00:43:10]:
And most of the people in that family are young adults or adults. No one else really has little kids like we do. So it's unrealistic to go into that family system and say, hey. Hey. I'm gonna need everyone to be totally silent by 8 o'clock at night. Yeah. Everyone no no fireworks, no campfire laughing, no drinks after dark, none of that. Everyone goes to bed when our kids go to bed.

Pat Millea [00:43:36]:
That would be cruel and Uncharitable. Right? That'd be uncharitable. Be uncharitable. Right? On the flip side, it would also not work for our family to have our 2 year old live on a 23 year old schedule. Right? So for years, what we've done is just go early in the morning on the 4th of July and come back late ish at night. Yeah. So they're not spending the night somewhere else, but we get a lot of really good, really beautiful family time in a way that still works for the stage that we're in in our life.

Kenna Millea [00:44:07]:
Yeah. No. Totally. And and I think, you know, the truth that because this is going to be a, you know, case by case basis, right? Like you have to have a well formed conscience to be able to trust that the decisions you're making, maybe the concessions that you're asking for, or the ways that you're adjusting your involvement in in the broader group activities, that those are charitable and that they're reasonable. Like, you have to trust yourself. You have to trust that you have been flexible, that you have been willing to compromise, that you haven't been staunch in your perspective and in your way of doing things. But that takes reflection. Like, that takes time to look at it and to say honestly, you know, how am I doing? I was in confession after a trip earlier this year with our, with a priest who's one of 13 kids.

Kenna Millea [00:45:02]:
And I was sharing with him some resentment that I was feeling about, you know, some some friends that we were traveling with and just like, oh, I was like so frustrated and whatever. And I was telling this to him. And he said, you know, he said, my in laws, like, when they come on family vacations with with my family of origin, he's like, they do. They will take a day or 2 or 3 where they're kind of doing their own thing and they weave back in when they can and they go back out again. And he's like, when you've got a group big enough, like, you just you've got to be willing to accept that. And so, also, you know, I think about us in the future, Pat, someday we are gonna be the the grandparents who are coordinating some big Millea family gathering maybe across the country with our children and their children, God willing, and their spouses. And and will we be able to extend that same kind of flexibility and generosity and and open that door to say to our kids like, hey. What do you guys need? You know, we want this to be something that you look forward to.

Kenna Millea [00:45:55]:
We know it's gonna be a sacrifice. We know it's gonna be more difficult than if you just stayed home, but we hope that the good that comes outweighs all of the challenges and the difficulties. So what would that be, to just broaden that and put that on the table and and normalize, like, that we can talk this way, and trust that that we can all get a little bit of something that we need. Not a 100%, but that we can all get something that we need.

Pat Millea [00:46:19]:
Yeah. I've got a few random really practical things. Can I talk about practical things?

Kenna Millea [00:46:23]:
We love practical things.

Pat Millea [00:46:24]:
Oh, I'm very excited. Okay. So, 3 of them, I'm gonna try to go lickety split. The first one is not just having a plan in the conversation about expectations and kinda abstract things, but having a plan and talking about the the detailed concrete things of how are we preparing and packing for this trip.

Kenna Millea [00:46:43]:
Mhmm.

Pat Millea [00:46:44]:
Right? So, our most recent trip to Texas. Okay. So we were gonna drive across the country. We had to pack a bunch of clothes and a bunch of food and games for the road trip.

Kenna Millea [00:46:54]:
Because we were living in the car for 19 hours.

Pat Millea [00:46:56]:
Living in the car for 19 hours. And what we came up with was a decent, I think, division of labor where you did a lot of the kind of fore planning of, like, starting to lay things out in the guest bedroom in a place where the toddlers can't destroy them or take them all apart before we have to leave. I was helping get all the kids clothes packed, making sure that everyone actually had clothes. I did okay. Only one only one daughter was short on play clothes the entire time.

Kenna Millea [00:47:25]:
I forgot about that.

Pat Millea [00:47:25]:
We did some laundry. It's fine. I'm getting better. But making sure that kids had their clothes packed and getting those sorted into suitcases. You were in charge of packing food, both that we were gonna help cook one dinner in Texas and food for the road, snacks, things like that. And then I was doing, like, I always do, which I actually enjoy doing, is packing the physical vehicle.

Kenna Millea [00:47:46]:
The Tetris ing of the vehicle.

Pat Millea [00:47:48]:
Of the vehicle, putting things under seats in the back, under feet of kids, whatever it takes to get people and junk to the place that we're going. Right? But without that preparation, number 1, things get missed and you you everyone pulls out of the driveway with that deep abiding fear of what I think we forgot something. Right? The feeling of like we forgot something really the whole diaper bag is left at home or all the food that we packed whatever. But when there's decent preparation, it takes a care of that fear a little bit because we've been open. There's a checklist that we're both checking things off of, you know

Kenna Millea [00:48:24]:
In a shared notes app.

Pat Millea [00:48:25]:
Exactly. Right. And even more importantly, there's less of a chance of resentment that one of us feels like they're doing all the work and the other one's doing nothing to contribute. Right? So we're really clear about what we are contributing Yeah. To pull off this trip.

Kenna Millea [00:48:38]:
We even for this one in particular, we don't normally use electronic entertainment, but we pulled out the big guns. And for the first time ever, our children got to watch a DVD in the car. And so I was like, you're in charge of electronic entertainment and I'm in charge of nonelectronics. Extension cord. Extension cords.

Pat Millea [00:49:00]:
To our strengths.

Kenna Millea [00:49:00]:
Yes. Totally. And that was huge. Like, that you're right. Like, feeling partnered is so important.

Pat Millea [00:49:08]:
Which leads to my second practical tip, which if you have any version of, screen limitations for your kids, First of all, kudos. I very much Congratulations. I think that's great and probably all of us could do with even more limitations of screens for our kids. There are many many of there are a million reasons that limiting screen time for your kids is a really good practice as parents. One of the beautiful benefits is that when your kids do get a screen, oh, it's like the 4th of July and Christmas all rolled into one. So the beauty of our kids not having not watching iPads or not playing games all day long is that when we're in the car and any screen is turned on, it doesn't actually matter what it is. They think it's the greatest thing ever, especially if it's in a vehicle or like if we're, you know, the few times we've flown on planes and they have the screens on the seats, holy cow. It's the greatest day of their lives.

Pat Millea [00:50:03]:
Right? And what I'll say is I think there is value to saving the screens, saving the big guns for when you need them.

Kenna Millea [00:50:08]:
Yeah. Yeah. The moments that are cool.

Pat Millea [00:50:10]:
If everything's great in the vehicle, don't pull out the iPad because it's not gonna hurt anything, but it's not actually helping much either. It's just a distraction

Kenna Millea [00:50:18]:
Yeah.

Pat Millea [00:50:18]:
That you don't need in the moment. When people's everybody starts screaming, oh, it's movie time. Here we go.

Kenna Millea [00:50:24]:
Yes. We we strategically planted those along our path.

Pat Millea [00:50:27]:
Oh, it's great. And the 3rd very practical thing that we learned about this year and we tried this summer driving down to Texas. If you have a membership to the Costco.

Kenna Millea [00:50:41]:
I assume it works with Sam's. That's what

Pat Millea [00:50:42]:
That's what I was just gonna say. Maybe it's true for Sam's Club too. I'm not sure. We are Costco people. And what somebody told us they they a family friend told us they do is they will plan their trip by just bouncing from Costco to Costco all the way to their destination because of 3 crucial factors. Number 1, cheaper gas than anywhere else. And in a world where gas is not cheap and in a world where we drive a 12 passenger van and gets about 14 miles to the gallon

Kenna Millea [00:51:09]:
That's generous.

Pat Millea [00:51:10]:
On the highway, Cheap gas is a beautiful thing. Now Costco is not open at 2 in the morning. So, like, we drove through the night and took turns going down to Texas. So you don't have that option in the middle of the night. But during daylight hours, 7 days a week, Costco has cheap gas. Number 2, large clean bathrooms. And yes you have to walk through the front of the Costco with your little card to get into the bathroom, that's fine, but I will take a minor walk to a Costco bathroom over a short walk to a gas station bathroom any day of the week.

Kenna Millea [00:51:42]:
Mhmm.

Pat Millea [00:51:42]:
And the face that you're making, I know how you feel about public restrooms.

Kenna Millea [00:51:45]:
Well, and just the number of stalls, like

Pat Millea [00:51:47]:
And with 9 people. Right?

Kenna Millea [00:51:48]:
Yeah. Like a a bathroom break at a gas station. Now we're really just tailoring the big families, but but, like, that could take us a half an hour if there's a stall per gender. But, like, this was like, boom, 5 minutes. We're all out. And then I assume you're leading to number 3, which is why it's okay that you have to go into the Costco anyway.

Pat Millea [00:52:04]:
Correct. Because they have all kinds of fantastic food that is

Kenna Millea [00:52:08]:
Will not upset your stomach. Well That's the polite way to put that.

Pat Millea [00:52:12]:
My stomach has been seasoned to deal with fast food, but yours maybe is not. So Not There's all kinds of food, and there's large quantities and whatever. You can divide it up and all that stuff in the car. It worked out really well for us. We we hit up that Costco in Ankeny, Iowa 2 times. Once on the way there, once on the way home.

Kenna Millea [00:52:29]:
And our route was was littered with Costco. So we weren't, like, driving a half an hour out of our way Correct. With Costco's. So we were driving on highways. Yeah. Right. Okay. Sweet.

Kenna Millea [00:52:38]:
Okay. Well, I have speaking of threes. So I've given 2 things. I've talked about the before the trip, the during the trip, and then now I've got one for after the trip, and then we're done.

Pat Millea [00:52:45]:
Great.

Kenna Millea [00:52:45]:
So, something that well, I guess it's after the day of the trip. So something that I, I I think some clients brought up to me as as they were talking in therapy about how to manage some expectations and kind of heal from some past upsetting experiences with family members on trips, is to encourage continuing to discuss highs and hearts. And so we would do this ourselves at night when we would get back to our bedroom, you know, in the Airbnb, on the trip. And it sounds so funny. Like, my clients were like, but you're together all day long. Like, what on earth could you say? And I'm like, I actually am more excited when we've been together all day and experiencing, quote, the same thing Yeah. But really drawing out different things. And it was it was so eye opening

Pat Millea [00:53:34]:
Every time.

Kenna Millea [00:53:35]:
And it helped me feel so much closer to you because honestly, between the children and all the extended families and whatever, I don't actually talk to you a ton during those days. Like like we're there to be connected to other people.

Pat Millea [00:53:47]:
We're together more than we are at home, but we often talk to each other less than we do at home.

Kenna Millea [00:53:51]:
Yeah. There's just more people to socialize with and more things to manage and more special events to deal with. And so to come back and to feel like, oh, like, I get to debrief with you. You know, some nights, it was more journaling. Other times, it was in conversation. But I think too, it was so it's so healthy beyond even just the trip of it's practicing that emotional boundary of, like, giving you space to say things that maybe are difficult for you, aspects of the trip that aren't meeting your expectations or or ways of sadness or upsetness is showing up for you. And it really just like, yeah, gives you permission to be you and gives me permission to be me, which is a huge building block here that we talk about of like what makes relationships thrive. So yeah.

Kenna Millea [00:54:38]:
I I love that. I think also to to presume that there's gonna be a high and hard says you I do not put the weight up. This has to be the happiest event ever. You know, we had a trip earlier this year. So cool getting to go to Orlando with my family and go to the theme parks. And you can put so much pressure on, like, how that should, like, change your life and, like, make you so overjoyed. And to say to a spouse at the end of the day, hey. What's a high and hard? Like, you're you're giving them permission to say, there was an element of this day that was difficult for me, even amidst the good stuff.

Kenna Millea [00:55:12]:
I'm not gonna throw out the baby with the bath water, but I'm gonna name what it is because it actually helps that upset feeling to dissipate and to diminish. Mhmm. So, yeah, I love the way that that facilitates intimacy and strengthens a sense of connection, because it is amazing how I can feel disconnected from you on a trip. Like that just kind of boggles my mind sometimes, but it's what I've come to find. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Yeah.

Kenna Millea [00:55:40]:
Yeah. So I think in terms of a challenge by choice, maybe we could just go back to the beginning of, you know, if you've got something coming up listener, that that you can identify as, like, yeah. I'm gonna be making a commitment of of time, of money, of energy, to this event, for this group. If there's a person that you could, speak with and and kind of, yeah, reciprocally discuss some hopes, some dreams, some, yeah, some some great wants out of that trip, as well as some maybe concerns or fears or like, oh, man, it'd be really bad if x, y, z, you know, were to happen. That that person could could partner with you and be with you in it and that you could mutually support each other, that that could be a first step toward really letting a trip, serve you. Serve serve your life. Let it be an act of self care. Let that trip be something that, prepares you to enter back into your roles and responsibilities with greater joy and generosity.

Kenna Millea [00:56:43]:
So that's our challenge by choice.

Pat Millea [00:56:45]:
Beautiful. Love it. Yep. Living in reality, making memories together in a way that doesn't feel like it's gonna break you in half. Right. It's just it's great. It's great. Not that trips are always gonna be the easiest thing in the world, but they can always be worthwhile with some of this kind of preplanning, preparation, communication, intentional living.

Pat Millea [00:57:06]:
Yeah. Just being authentically you no matter where you happen to be.

Kenna Millea [00:57:09]:
Yeah. I love that. Thanks for letting us do this. Thanks for letting me call an audible and pivoting with me.

Pat Millea [00:57:14]:
You are very welcome. Yep. I will I will drive through the night anywhere with you, my love.

Kenna Millea [00:57:19]:
Now I do know that to be true.

Pat Millea [00:57:20]:
Not anywhere. There are some places I probably don't wanna go, but I'll drive through the night to a mutually agreed upon destination with you.

Kenna Millea [00:57:27]:
You're amazing. Can you pray us out?

Pat Millea [00:57:29]:
Let's pray, babe. Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen. God of life and love, we we praise you. We love you. We thank you for, for your great goodness and for your presence in our lives. Lord, thank you for the call, from time to time to step away from the daily routine and to, to allow ourselves to be recreated and to spend precious and intentional time with our families, with extended families, with loved ones, with friends, and to experience some of the creation that you have, placed in our world as a gift to us. Lord, we ask for your blessing and for your protection over all of our conversations, all of our efforts in any of our travels coming up in the months years to come.

Pat Millea [00:58:25]:
Lord, please protect us from any resentment. Protect us from bitterness. Protect us from, selfishness and pride, and help us to be people of charity, people of hope, and people of joy and peace in the midst of the hardships that come with travel. Lord, please bless each of us listening here today. Bless our families and help us to be faithful and humble witnesses of your word wherever we go. We ask all this, Lord, in your name. Amen.

Kenna Millea [00:58:57]:
Amen.

Pat Millea [00:58:58]:
In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Amen. Amen.

Pat Millea [00:59:02]:
Where do you wanna go next?

Kenna Millea [00:59:04]:
Do I get to choose?

Pat Millea [00:59:06]:
Well, we are going to Colorado and New York, actually, in the next few weeks here.

Kenna Millea [00:59:10]:
We are. But I mean, like, big trip. Big big overnight driving in the van, Tetris ing the van.

Pat Millea [00:59:15]:
You get to choose with my approval.

Kenna Millea [00:59:21]:
Back to that mutually agreed upon location thing.

Pat Millea [00:59:23]:
That's right. Yep. Well, friends, we would love to know. I I selfishly, just can you let us know where you go? Like, when you when you travel? Yeah.

Kenna Millea [00:59:31]:
Give us ideas.

Pat Millea [00:59:32]:
Yeah. Where do you where do you like to go? What do you do? Do you go with your family? Do you go with friends? Do you see your in laws? Like, what what travel do you typically do as a family? What travel dreams or goals do you have for the future? And, what tips do you have? What makes family trips successful for you? Practically, emotionally, spiritually, what what makes trips go well for you? You can let us know at thiswholelifepodcast.com. You can send us a message or tag us on Instagram and Facebook @ThisWholeLifePodcast. And there you may have seen there's a number now at the bottom of the show notes where you can send us a text message and you can let us know your thoughts that way. So super easy, right from your phone. We're statistically you're probably listening to this podcast right now anyway on your phone. Send us a message. We'd love to hear from you, and we will see you next time on This Whole Life wherever we're broadcasting from.

Kenna Millea [01:00:26]:
God bless you.

Pat Millea [01:00:27]:
God bless you. This Whole Life is a production of the Martin Center For Integration. Visit us online at thiswholelifepodcast.com.

Pat Millea [01:00:53]:
Gross.

Kenna Millea [01:00:54]:
That's my best Janice impression. How did I do?

Pat Millea [01:00:56]:
Pretty good.

Kenna Millea [01:00:59]:
It's a little higher higher than it was more like that.