Ep54 Thriving Through Transition

"There is an appointed time for everything, and a time for every affair under the heavens."
~ Ecclesiastes 3:1

Change is hard. Yet, it's something that every person experiences on a daily basis. How can something so universal be so difficult for us?

In this episode of This Whole Life, Pat and Kenna dive into the challenges surrounding life changes and transitions. So many clients bring their questions and struggles to them when they're facing changes, and the hosts take time to reflect on the ways they have handled changes well and poorly in their lives. They stress the value of seeking support and connection during times of change, emphasizing the need to communicate openly with loved ones. Through thought-provoking conversation and practical advice, this episode provides valuable guidance on handling life's transitions with grace and resilience.

Episode 54 Show Notes

Chapters:
00:00: Introduction and Highs & Hards
14:24: Highs & Hards
19:42: Coping with change in a mentally healthy way
26:00: Real life transitions that we handled well & poorly
31:43: How to approach change in a healthy way
43:53: Why change is so hard
52:16: Challenge By Choice

Questions for Reflection & Discussion:

1. What is one specific thing that stuck with you from this conversation?
2. What changes have you handled poorly in your life? What changes have you handled well?
3. How easily do you tolerate change?
4. What helps you to manage change in a healthy way?
5. What tips from this episode might help you manage transitions better in the future?

Thank you for listening! Visit us online at thiswholelifepodcast.com, and send us an email with your thoughts, questions, or ideas.

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Interested in more faith-filled mental health resources? Check out the Martin Center for Integration

Music: "You're Not Alone" by Marie Miller. Used with permission.

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction and Highs & Hards
• 14:24 Highs & Hards
• 19:42 Coping with change in a mentally healthy way
• 26:00 Real life transitions that we handled well & poorly
• 31:43 How to approach change in a healthy way
• 43:53 Why change is so hard
• 52:16 Challenge By Choice

Transcript

Pat Millea [00:00:00]:
There are so many ways that in our humanity we resist change and a lot of it comes down to what you're talking about. That change always opens up this new realm of possibilities and a lot of things could be better after this change but there's a real risk that some things could be worse.Welcome to This Whole Life, a podcast for all of us seeking sanity and sanctity, and a place to find joy and meaning through the integration of faith and mental health. I'm Pat Millea, a Catholic speaker, musician, and leader, and I'm here with my bride, Kenna, a licensed marriage and family therapist. This is the stuff she and I talk about all the time, doing dishes in the car on a date. We're excited to bring you this podcast for educational purposes. It's not therapy or a substitute for mental health care. So come on in.

Pat Millea [00:00:54]:
Have a seat at our dining room table and join the conversation with us. We are so glad you're here.

Kenna Millea [00:01:14]:
Welcome back to This Whole Life. It is wonderful to be diving into a new episode with all of you and especially you, my darling one, even with your meerkat bug eyes coming at me.

Pat Millea [00:01:28]:
I was trying to make good eye contact.

Kenna Millea [00:01:29]:
I oh, is that what that was? It was an over correction

Pat Millea [00:01:32]:
It was. It was.

Kenna Millea [00:01:33]:
Of the lack of eye contact when I attempted to start the episode the first time.

Pat Millea [00:01:37]:
I love staring into your eyes and I love

Kenna Millea [00:01:40]:
Through this pop socket thing.

Pat Millea [00:01:41]:
Making you look into strange eyes over here.

Kenna Millea [00:01:44]:
Welcome to this episode on changes and transitions. Oh, man. I feel like we have some things to say today.

Pat Millea [00:01:57]:
Have you been through some changes in your life?

Kenna Millea [00:01:58]:
Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Yeah. I'm excited about this because it is something that has been just like organically popping up in life, you know, lots of talks being requested around this topic and clients coming in for precisely this thing for help through change and transition. And so it seems like a really natural thing to, like, bring it onto the podcast. So I'm excited for this today.

Pat Millea [00:02:24]:
Something that everyone goes through. Yep. Yeah.

Kenna Millea [00:02:26]:
Yeah. Yeah. But I wanna start since I appear to be behind the wheel here with, highs and hards.

Pat Millea [00:02:33]:
You're gonna start with that?

Kenna Millea [00:02:35]:
I well, yeah. What do you wanna do?

Pat Millea [00:02:36]:
I wanna play a game is what I wanna do.

Kenna Millea [00:02:38]:
You just wanna play a game.

Pat Millea [00:02:39]:
That's right.

Kenna Millea [00:02:40]:
And then you're like, the episode is too long. And I'm like, I wonder why the episode is too long. I wonder.

Pat Millea [00:02:45]:
Because we're having too much fun.

Kenna Millea [00:02:47]:
I came here to get down to business. Okay? So for the rest of you who need to speed up and don't want our shenanigans. Alright. What's your game?

Pat Millea [00:02:54]:
Okay. So, we're just gonna do it's becoming like the the the This Whole Life official game. This or that. Okay?

Kenna Millea [00:03:02]:
This Whole Life This or That.

Pat Millea [00:03:03]:
In in transition and change theme Oh. We're gonna do this or that, like, dates and times version.

Kenna Millea [00:03:11]:
Okay.

Pat Millea [00:03:11]:
Okay?

Kenna Millea [00:03:12]:
Okay.

Pat Millea [00:03:12]:
Alright. So A

Kenna Millea [00:03:13]:
little time travel episode.

Pat Millea [00:03:14]:
Here we go.

Kenna Millea [00:03:15]:
Okay.

Pat Millea [00:03:15]:
K? This or that. Tuesday or Thursday?

Kenna Millea [00:03:21]:
Oh, that's so hard. I wanna say Tuesday because I still feel hopeful. Like, I've got the whole week to get things done. And then Thursday, I'm like, oh, it's almost the weekend. We're like crawling to the finish. Okay. Thursday. Thursday.

Kenna Millea [00:03:34]:
Final answer Thursday.

Pat Millea [00:03:35]:
Because you feel like it's the right answer or it's really what you feel?

Kenna Millea [00:03:38]:
No. I really do think I like Thursdays better. We're in the home stretch. Thursday.

Pat Millea [00:03:43]:
Okay. Alright. You? Great. Yeah. Thursday. Thursday. Yeah. Right.

Pat Millea [00:03:47]:
It's closer to the weekend. Okay. Yeah. I'm as boring and typical as they come in terms of those things. Number 2, New Year's Eve or Black Friday?

Kenna Millea [00:03:56]:
Oh, New Year's Eve. Yeah. Yeah. New Year's Eve. I mean, just by virtue of the fact that we're normally going to the vigil Mass on that day for Mary Mother of God, and so that adds a little festivity to it. And also that we have a sweet tradition of celebrating New Year's Eve early, like British New Year's Eve with the kids. We've done that a few times, and so that raised New Year's Eve higher on my list of yeah. And then Black Friday or whatever.

Pat Millea [00:04:23]:
Roight-o.

Kenna Millea [00:04:23]:
Yeah. You?

Pat Millea [00:04:26]:
Yeah. These are both days that you and I don't care a lot about, honestly, which is why I put them together. Probably, it leans Black Friday a little bit. Interesting. Because it's it's Christmas, Day 1. And I know that's offensive

Kenna Millea [00:04:42]:
That didn't even occur to me.

Pat Millea [00:04:43]:
To all of you Advent lovers out there, I'm not denigrating Advent. I'm just saying we are a both/and tradition.

Kenna Millea [00:04:48]:
Yeah. Don't tell your pastors about this.

Pat Millea [00:04:50]:
We I can celebrate the the the mortification of Advent, and I can listen to Christmas music at the same time. So that's my choice, and I'm sticking with it. Number 3, morning or afternoon?

Kenna Millea [00:05:04]:
Morning. 1000%.

Pat Millea [00:05:06]:
Really?

Kenna Millea [00:05:06]:
Yes. How does it surprise you? I'm at my best.

Pat Millea [00:05:11]:
I just wonder That's what

Kenna Millea [00:05:12]:
I wanna have a million conversations with you. No. The afternoon slump, it's real. Like, that's like taking a deep breath and getting ready for the dinner bedtime insanity. Like, to me, like, 4 to 8 PM is a blur, and I am just praying that I have kindness and gentleness as I move through it

Pat Millea [00:05:32]:
Mhmm.

Kenna Millea [00:05:32]:
Like a flipping wrecking ball. So you, Afternoon.

Pat Millea [00:05:36]:
Good times. Afternoon by a mile. You what you say about the morning is how I feel about the afternoon.

Kenna Millea [00:05:42]:
Really? So, yeah,

Pat Millea [00:05:43]:
I'm just getting rolling. We're getting started in the afternoon. Okay. Yeah. The day is young. Alright. 8 AM or 8 PM?

Kenna Millea [00:05:50]:
Well, 8 PM just because I'm, like, sliding into my bed, but, like

Pat Millea [00:05:55]:
You are not. You don't go to bed that early yet.

Kenna Millea [00:05:57]:
I mean, mentally, I am. 8 AM for sure.

Pat Millea [00:06:01]:
Yeah. Okay.

Kenna Millea [00:06:02]:
Fresh as a daisy. I don't even need to ask you.

Pat Millea [00:06:04]:
8 PM.

Kenna Millea [00:06:05]:
8 PM.

Pat Millea [00:06:05]:
I'm just getting started. Yes. 4th July or Saint Patrick's Day?

Kenna Millea [00:06:10]:
Oh, 4th July, like, by a mile.

Pat Millea [00:06:13]:
By a mile?

Kenna Millea [00:06:14]:
Sorry. I know you're offended. He's your patron.

Pat Millea [00:06:16]:
No. It's it's fine. We Americans have made Saint Patrick's Day into a thing that it probably was never supposed to be in the first place. I am surprised I don't think I feel like you don't like anything about the 4th July. Fireworks, hot dogs, humidity and heat. You know, I feel like you complain about those specific things every 4th July.

Kenna Millea [00:06:37]:
Well, don't I sound like a barrel of laughs?

Pat Millea [00:06:39]:
I think you love America. I think the the the stuff around the 4th July, you could do without. No?

Kenna Millea [00:06:46]:
Well, we normally are with my side of the family at the cabin, so that is exciting to me. True. I don't think about fireworks with the 4th July. I just nix those and don't even pay attention. But, no. It's like it's this sweet, like, bastion of celebration in the midst of a summer that otherwise is, like, devoid of any holidays. Like, there's no like, everything else is jam packed in the winter. So the 4th July is like this, ah, like fun summer.

Kenna Millea [00:07:13]:
Yeah. Summertime. You again, I don't even feel like this is a competition.

Pat Millea [00:07:18]:
Yeah. 4th July for sure. Yeah. Yeah. And I I I love apologies to to my deep Irish roots, and I do love me some Saint Patty's Day, but 4th July for sure. Yeah. Thanksgiving or Christmas Eve?

Kenna Millea [00:07:33]:
Thanksgiving or Christmas Eve. Definitely Christmas Eve. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. Wow. You are really bringing out all of my Scroogy tendencies right now as I think about how difficult it is for me to love Thanksgiving. I'll say it in 15 seconds, and there are probably a lot of people who will object to this.

Kenna Millea [00:07:52]:
And then maybe there's some people who will feel like validated in there that they share this with me. But I think Thanksgiving is a ton of work for something that flashes by, and I just don't like that. So I would much prefer Christmas Eve where there seems to be like a full day, a full season of festivity. And again, like, just I mean, Christmas Eve Mass. Amazing. Yeah. So I'm just I'm gonna be quick about it, but Thanksgiving

Pat Millea [00:08:22]:
No. We got the point. It's okay. Yeah.

Kenna Millea [00:08:24]:
Thumbs down.

Pat Millea [00:08:24]:
Not big on Thanksgiving. That's okay. Alright. August. Wait. What?

Kenna Millea [00:08:29]:
You. Thanksgiving or Christmas Eve?

Pat Millea [00:08:30]:
Christmas Eve. But it's really close. Thanksgiving is the greatest. I don't care what you say. Thanksgiving is

Kenna Millea [00:08:35]:
I mean, I'm not gonna take it away from you. I just

Pat Millea [00:08:37]:
You're not gonna cancel it? No. Thanksgiving is amazing and wonderful, but Christmas Eve has it by this much just because it's the eve of the celebration of the incarnation, and that's tough to beat. Okay. August or January?

Kenna Millea [00:08:53]:
August for sure. For sure. Yeah. I mean, I know that it is bananas getting kids ready for school, speaking of transitions.

Pat Millea [00:09:02]:
Uh-huh.

Kenna Millea [00:09:03]:
But, but there is so much hope. Like, I'm I'm naive enough still. How many years have we been doing the back school thing now? 9 years. I'm still naive enough to be like, but this year, I'll be ready and it'll just be joyful and, like, everything is shiny and new and the smell of pencils and crayons and all of that and yeah. August. Yeah. Yeah. Mhmm.

Pat Millea [00:09:24]:
I think January. Is it because it's your birthday month? That's part of it. Yeah. It's a birthday month. Makes sense. But it's also, like, football still happening in up up here in Minnesota. It's still winter, but it's not the Bleak winter. Winter yet that crushes your soul.

Pat Millea [00:09:40]:
It's like it's still like, oh, snow is fun to play in.

Kenna Millea [00:09:44]:
It's still novel.

Pat Millea [00:09:45]:
Yeah. It's it's still manageable. You know? So, yeah, January by a nose. It's not a huge gap, but I would say January. I would lean that.

Kenna Millea [00:09:54]:
K.

Pat Millea [00:09:55]:
Saturday or Sunday?

Kenna Millea [00:09:59]:
Oh, Sunday scaries. Again, they're real, and I experienced them. And that makes it difficult to say Sunday by a landslide. I I think I think still Sunday wins out for me. You do? Yeah. I think mainly because I stack a lot of tasks on Saturday. Like, I expect productivity on Saturday.

Pat Millea [00:10:19]:
Which is why I'm a little surprised that you don't love Saturday more.

Kenna Millea [00:10:24]:
My heart longs for the Sunday life. So, yeah, I think I think Sunday. We go to mass as a family. We have a tradition of brunch. We usually have people over for brunch. There's some kind of socializing usually on Sunday. Mhmm.

Kenna Millea [00:10:36]:
There's a lot of hanging out family time. We'll usually do something with the big kids in the evening on Sunday after the littles go to bed if I can resist the Sunday anxiety. Yeah. You?

Pat Millea [00:10:51]:
It's really close. I can't decide.

Kenna Millea [00:10:53]:
Football is gonna be, like, a big contributing factor. Is it

Pat Millea [00:10:56]:
fall, Saturday might have the edge because you got Notre Dame football during the day. And then in the evening, Saturdays are either, like, we'll go on a date or we'll do something fun on Saturday night. Sunday night is just like prep for the week. So there's not a lot of, like

Kenna Millea [00:11:11]:
I know.

Pat Millea [00:11:12]:
Excitement and fun craziness on Sunday night. But it is a like, you can't beat Mass, obviously. All kinds of family time, rest. We have a whole episode about the value of Sunday. So I'll say Sunday, 8 months out of the year.

Kenna Millea [00:11:26]:
Okay.

Pat Millea [00:11:27]:
And Saturday between September and December. Last one. Your birthday or one of our kids birthdays?

Kenna Millea [00:11:39]:
Oh.

Pat Millea [00:11:39]:
Doesn't matter which one.

Kenna Millea [00:11:42]:
I would say one of our kids birthdays because I feel like I just manage my expectations better on their birthdays. Like, on my birthday, I want it all. Like, I want socializing, but I also want, like, quiet, reflective, introverted, introspective time. And I want, like, to be totally like, I want us to go out on a date, but I also want something, like really simple and like, and carefree, easy meals. Like, yeah, I just I want too much. I'm so conflicted. So That

Pat Millea [00:12:14]:
is one of the situations where both and is hard to manage. Yeah. To to do all that in 8 hours. Yeah.

Kenna Millea [00:12:19]:
Okay. So not my birthday. Yeah. And our kids' birthdays, I love it. I think we've got a really good thing going in terms of how like our balance of really celebrating them and also making it manageable. So we don't do gifts. We do a birthday outing. We you make now this, like, photo collage of them that gets put projected up on our TV for whatever the week surrounding their birthday, and that's super fun and we just get to look at memories.

Kenna Millea [00:12:46]:
And, often I will try and corner them at some point and tell them the story of their birth, is really exciting for me and slightly horrifying depending on their age.

Pat Millea [00:12:54]:
And then they'll ask me about details of their birth, and I will say, I have no idea child.

Kenna Millea [00:12:59]:
Daddy, what time was I born?

Pat Millea [00:13:00]:
I don't know. Go ask mommy. I don't know.

Kenna Millea [00:13:03]:
So yeah. So I would say I feel like we've done a great job. Yeah. We celebrate with their godparents. I'd say we've done a great job of making their birthdays more manageable, and so I like that.

Pat Millea [00:13:12]:
Do you think your birthday coming up this year will be better than last year's birthday for you?

Kenna Millea [00:13:17]:
What is that? Because last year's was terrible.

Pat Millea [00:13:18]:
Because last year, the children were I think they sensed that it was your birthday.

Kenna Millea [00:13:23]:
Oh my gosh.

Pat Millea [00:13:23]:
And they decided

Kenna Millea [00:13:25]:
It was so bad.

Pat Millea [00:13:26]:
How can we needle at every annoyance of mommy possible? So at one point, you just, like, said, bleep it, and you, like, went for a walk down around the neighborhood. You went for, like, an angry solo walk.

Kenna Millea [00:13:40]:
I did.

Pat Millea [00:13:40]:
Happy birthday to you.

Kenna Millea [00:13:41]:
I've never done that before. It was it was rough. I mean, I'm gonna go on a limb and say couldn't be worse. But, yeah.

Pat Millea [00:13:51]:
We got 6 weeks. We're gonna find out. No. 6 weeks. What is that's terrible math. We have 10 weeks. We're gonna find out. Yeah.

Kenna Millea [00:13:56]:
Okay. What about you? I'm curious. Your birthday or a kid's birthday?

Pat Millea [00:13:58]:
I think a kid's birthday. It's close. But,

Kenna Millea [00:14:01]:
they also are at the age when we take them on an outing. Like, they like to do things that you like. Like, going racing race, racing go karts, going to ride roller coasters, going to Chipotle. Like, these are all

Pat Millea [00:14:13]:
They all want dinner at Chick Fil A. And it's like, yes.

Kenna Millea [00:14:16]:
That's so great. Park. Like, these are all things that you love too.

Pat Millea [00:14:19]:
Yeah. Okay. Sweet. Well, that's fun. Thanks for playing.

Kenna Millea [00:14:22]:
Yes. Okay. Now

Pat Millea [00:14:23]:
Isn't that a good time?

Kenna Millea [00:14:24]:
Highs and hards. You're always a great time.

Pat Millea [00:14:25]:
Highs and hards. Highs and hards. K. Ladies first. You

Kenna Millea [00:14:28]:
No. What? I just was in the hot seat. I'm in charge, man.

Pat Millea [00:14:33]:
Alright. Fine. My hard well, I'll I'll start with a high this time. My high is that we just got back from a weekend at, your side of the family's cabin over in Wisconsin, and it was just really wonderful. It was, you know, hearkening back to our episode on family trips. It does take some effort even to go 90 minutes away and to pack just clothes basically for a few days. We weren't packing a whole bunch of, like, crazy vacation type items, but it takes effort. But, once we got there, you know, you're still dealing with all the same struggles and challenges that you have at home in terms of parenting and schedules and things like that.

Pat Millea [00:15:14]:
But just all the fun of, like, taking kids out on jet skis, and me and the boys went golfing on Sunday and, going on boat rides around the lake and things like that. Just lots of really fun adventure things and our family's been traveling a little bit you know we're pretty busy the past few months both as a family on a big family trip but then you and I have been separate from our kids on and off for the past few weeks. So it was a good just, like, reunion, reconnection time for all of us. So it was really, really lovely. My hard, is that, the past few weeks I feel like you and I have had lots of conversations with friends whose parents are aging and are moving into we are now moving into that age and stage, speaking of a really difficult transition, where adult children start to become caretakers for their parents. If not full time caretakers, then at least starting to manage, medical appointments and, emotional expectations and boundaries with aging parents who aren't able to to be as active and aren't able to host like they used to, but they still really want to. So that's hard for them to let go of. Parents who can't drive anymore, things like that.

Pat Millea [00:16:29]:
And you and I are blessed with really healthy parents. Your dad passed away at a really young age, so Mhmm. We did not have the aging experience with him specifically. But our our parents that are living are in really good health. Thanks be to God. But there will come a day where we will go through this process too. And it's been hard to just go through some of those feelings with them and hearing about what that's like for them. Yeah.

Pat Millea [00:16:54]:
It's it's good, and it's beautiful to help your parents age and eventually die with dignity, but, still difficult along the way. So Yeah.

Kenna Millea [00:17:02]:
And hard to not know what that's like. We've never been in that position exactly. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm glad the cabin was good for you this weekend. Yeah. We haven't we kinda came home in a whirlwind and haven't really talked since then.

Kenna Millea [00:17:14]:
So Yes. So I'll start with my hard right now is maybe not surprisingly. Yeah. That, that I'm out of routine and I love routine. And so this is difficult for me that we have been doing so much traveling, which is a gift in and of itself, but also, yeah, our kids have been in different camps. And so every week is like a new adventure. And I kind of take a deep breath every night and think like, okay, what does our nanny need to know for tomorrow? Because no 2 days are the same. And I'm so grateful for such a full, vivid life.

Kenna Millea [00:17:52]:
And also I am ready for some change and the routine that comes with that. So ready to settle back into school, which happens really soon, like, a week and a half for our kids

Pat Millea [00:18:04]:
10 days.

Kenna Millea [00:18:04]:
Which is nuts. So that's my hard lately. I would say my high is that it it wasn't until after the fact that I recognized and you and I haven't really been debriefed about this, Pat. We were out in Colorado for, like, a work visioning time, visiting my aunt and uncle. So my dad's brother, his only brother and his wife. And then we were at the cabin this past weekend with one of my dad's sisters and her husband and my grandpa, so my dad's dad. And just like yeah. Feeling connected to my dad, which is such a sweet thing.

Kenna Millea [00:18:43]:
There are, you know, definitely hard anniversaries and milestones that come up where I feel connected to him, or I have memories of things that he was going through, or we were going through as a family during his his illness and his death. But to yeah. Just be with people who remind me of him, who look like him, who sound like him. I mean, just all these little ways of, of being reminded of him and, and really just getting to soak in the sweetness of who he was and who he is. And especially with the cabin, like ways that our kids can be connected to him. There's a lot of my dad's artwork around the cabin. And so just I was walking around and, like, oh my gosh, and pointing it out to the kids and sharing things with them about him. So, yeah, I cannot underestimate the value and the beauty of that.

Pat Millea [00:19:25]:
Yeah. Yeah. It was really it's really special. One of the many reasons that spending time with your family is really beautiful. Thank you for that, babe. Thank you for your high and hard. I always love hearing things from you sometimes on the podcast that we haven't even talked about in real life yet. So it's a great great moment for me too.

Pat Millea [00:19:42]:
Transitions.

Kenna Millea [00:19:43]:
Yes.

Pat Millea [00:19:43]:
Changes.

Kenna Millea [00:19:44]:
Yes.

Pat Millea [00:19:45]:
K. Humanity is defined by change and transition, but we find it so hard sometimes. Hard. Yeah. So tell me, you hinted at this. What what's the background? What brought this up now? What's been going on that you've been hearing from other people, from clients that have made you think this is a really important topic and this is a good time to do it?

Kenna Millea [00:20:06]:
Well yeah. So so coming from the clinical perspective, most of my clients come to me because they are experiencing a change or transition or anticipating 1 and want support navigating that, that this change or transition maybe is inevitable or it's already come to pass, and they are trying to cope well with it. And and I love that. Like, I love that my clients that there are clients here at the Martin Center, are being intentional, wanting to, engage with these changes and transitions in life. So that's one big piece of why I thought we should talk about this today. Another thing is, again, we've had organizations approach us asking us specifically to help their community members, their their employees, their staff, their volunteers, to transition well. You know, when companies are merging, when, volunteers are ending a period of service, when people are naturally moving up to a higher level of responsibility, those are all changes in transitions that organizations are thinking about. Like my gosh, like, how can we all do this well? So that we continue to to gain momentum to engage in life.

Kenna Millea [00:21:22]:
Also, just to be honest, like this season of heading into the fall, is a big time of change and transition in our house. And so, Pat, you and I have a ton of conversations around this time of year of, like, okay, schedules and routines are gonna change again. It feels like yesterday we were talking about, what do we want summer routines to look like? And now we're back to the drawing board of, like, okay, what do we need this year, so that our family can really work together well, that we can be supportive of each other, give each other all the space and the energy and the resources that we all need to do the things that are in front of us. So, yeah, this is coming from a lot of different angles. We could say it's a long time coming for us to do this here.

Pat Millea [00:22:05]:
And it's a, it's a crucial part of the way that you and I view mental health in general. One of the definitions of mental health that we'll offer to groups that we work with, it it gets away from the idea that mental health is merely a problem to be solved. That when you hear mental health, a lot of times the words you think of are things like depression, anxiety, suicide, things like that. The reality is that mental health is this great and beautiful gift and having good solid mental health is not simply avoiding depression and avoiding anxiety because then you can start to think that maybe I should not be sad anymore or I shouldn't be worried about anything anymore and that is not the goal. It's also not reality. It's impossible. But, a healthier version of mental health, a more comprehensive vision of mental health is this definition that you and I use. Kind of 4 steps.

Pat Millea [00:22:56]:
Number 1, using the mind and body. Number 2, to accurately perceive reality. Number 3, what matters to our conversation today, in order to respond to stressors and changes. And then step 4 in order to be in loving relationship with God, self, and others. Yep. So we're focused on that third part today, to respond to stressors and changes. Because somebody can have really stable and really good mental and emotional and physical health when things are predictable, when everything is stable. And sometimes all it takes is one change, one significant change to really throw someone's life up in the air.

Pat Millea [00:23:36]:
And if you like, they can't get their feet on solid ground, they don't know which way is up, and that can be a real source of of stress and hardship for folks.

Kenna Millea [00:23:45]:
Yeah. No. Absolutely. And and I think that, like, this life is dynamic. This life is ever changing. And for, for those of us who want to be fully alive, like for those of us who want to be on this heaven bound journey of becoming more and more who God made us to be, we should expect change. Like we should expect times of transition into something new when, when the Lord is growing something new in us, maybe internally, interiorly, or through external forces and events and occasions, that that change happens. And so this is a good and as you're right, as you're saying, Pat, like that's exactly right.

Kenna Millea [00:24:28]:
Like our mental health, we could say could be measured in part by how responsive can I be? How intentional can I be in engaging that change? So what I yeah. I I do. I wanna hone in on that responding to stressors and changes. And I think that there's kind of 2 categories. Right? Like, there's those changes and transitions that we can foresee coming. So clients who come to me as they prepare for welcoming another baby into their family or their first baby into their family, clients who come prior to retirement, or as they're becoming empty nesters as the last, you know, little chicks are flying the coop. And so there's that change that we anticipate. And then there's those changes that just happen to us, that come crashing into our world.

Kenna Millea [00:25:18]:
You know, certainly, we can think of maybe death, a diagnosis, job loss. I mean, those tend to be the more dramatic and upsetting and difficult changes. But either way, when we notice that change is upon us, that change is called for, that something is going to shift and be different in our life. It's it's on us to say, okay, how do I want to actively engage that? And that is what this episode is about today. For those of us who want to continue to pursue a dynamic life that is ever changing and who want to engage that in a real unintentional way, what are those strategies? What are those mindsets? What are those things that we can be thinking about? That's what we want to talk about.

Pat Millea [00:26:00]:
So for the sake of putting some kind of meat on the bones a little bit of making things a little bit concrete before we get into some kind of good steps to approaching change, what is one change or transition in your life that was really difficult for you?

Kenna Millea [00:26:16]:
My word. I would say I would say going from being in private practice as a therapist to owning a business where we employed others. That that like new level of responsibility was, was big and it added so much weight to my daily decisions and to my choices. It really demanded like a leveling up of my thoughtfulness, my prudence. And so it was just, it was a mental load that was really different than before, which maybe sounds silly because I was, you know, contributing to what, what our family needed to survive. But it was another level when you think about the other families that are now dependent upon you and needing, yeah, needing you to do your best, to make your best choices. That was a, that was a huge transition and just how to manage that and not let it be like crippling and debilitating, like under the load, but let it move me to, to be good at my job, to do well with the responsibility that's been given to me that took time and therapy for me to figure out.

Pat Millea [00:27:31]:
So then what about

Kenna Millea [00:27:32]:
Wait. Wait. You.

Pat Millea [00:27:33]:
You I have to go too?

Kenna Millea [00:27:34]:
Yes.

Pat Millea [00:27:35]:
Oh, fine. Okay. I think, this is gonna sound bad. K?

Kenna Millea [00:27:42]:
Can't wait.

Pat Millea [00:27:43]:
So just bear with me on this. Okay? I don't know that I managed the marriage transition very well.

Kenna Millea [00:27:49]:
Okay.

Pat Millea [00:27:49]:
Because I think I mean, we've talked about our episodes on pornography and things. Like, I I think I had this vision that marriage as a sacrament just, like, solves all your problems, basically. Like like, you can do whatever you want before you're married because when you get married, everything changes and you just automatically are a good person, a good husband, whatever. And, spoiler, not the case.

Kenna Millea [00:28:13]:
It takes work.

Pat Millea [00:28:13]:
If you are engaged or dating or anything right now and you're looking toward the altar one day, if that's your vocational call, boy, have I got some news for you.

Kenna Millea [00:28:23]:
You're gonna get better. Work.

Pat Millea [00:28:25]:
Yeah. Right. But it's gonna be work. Good news is that as difficult as that transition was for me, the sacrament does work and the grace is real. And, especially if you have a spouse and a partner who's willing to journey with you in that. Mhmm. There, you have the rest of your life to figure it out. Right? So it's been a really good process, but it was really difficult at the front end for me.

Pat Millea [00:28:45]:
Yeah. I think. Yeah. What about a transition or change that you feel like you manage really well?

Kenna Millea [00:28:54]:
Yeah. I would say that by and large, I think that welcoming a new baby into our family were really pretty calm times. Again, maybe because I am such a proactive think ahead systems processes focused individual that, like, there are a lot of things I would do in advance to get ready for that. But I think just yeah. We did a really good job having conversations ahead of time and managing expectations and, being clear that like this is going to require adjustment. Like no one's expecting that life will be as it was before this child entered our family. So I think, yeah, I think that went well. I think it really also went much better when I got and I did this, I think early on in motherhood, but when I got really comfortable asking for help, the, Oh, yep.

Kenna Millea [00:29:46]:
That humble pie taking a big old bite out of that. And, and being able to be honest when I was like, outside of my window and beyond my reach. So Mhmm. Yeah. You? Yeah. A positively managed transition.

Pat Millea [00:30:03]:
This was not a perfect transition for me or a totally seamless change because every change is gonna have hardship to it. But the the transition from living at home to college, I feel like went really well for me. And I went from being pretty concerned with what people thought about me in high school and I think part of it was I was just tired of being kind of pigeonholed as this one type of person in high school. Like I think a lot of people have that experience maybe where you grow up with the same people and you just are that person and you're not allowed to change on the other side of transition you know and then college you can just be whoever you want these people don't know you by and large unless you go to you know some school where you have a ton of high school classmates there so there were people that I knew in college that literally went by a different name in college because they wanted to make such a big grandiose change I did not go down that road but it did feel like a way more authentic version of myself of just being able to be more social and free with my friendships. And there were none of these expectations around certain social dynamics or or social kind of clicks or cliches. And it was really I I feel like I really came into my own and just was a really healthy version of myself for definitely the beginning of college. In some ways throughout college and adulthood, but especially early on. Yeah.

Pat Millea [00:31:27]:
It went really well.

Kenna Millea [00:31:28]:
Love that. Mhmm.

Pat Millea [00:31:29]:
So alright. So if we're gonna do more of the latter, the smooth transitions that are are healthy and fruitful, and if we're gonna do the best we can to avoid the really difficult, abrupt, kind of rocky transitions

Kenna Millea [00:31:43]:
Mhmm.

Pat Millea [00:31:43]:
What are some ways that we can approach transition and change that are gonna make it more easy for us to be healthy and and mature throughout?

Kenna Millea [00:31:51]:
Yeah. Well, first of all, a little disclaimer that I had the awesome joy of having dinner with a couple of my colleagues, some of my classmates from grad school in therapy the other night. And so was tossing this question out to them, and this is what I'll share is kind of the pool of wisdom from Vonda, Joanna and I who all see clients who are, yeah, going through transitions, who have been through transitions ourselves. So this is not just my voice here. But the first thing that came up is the the need for attending to self care of paying attention to those basic human needs. Sleep, moving your body, eating food that is going to serve you well, drinking water, decreasing stimulus, and, you know, those things that can kind of agitate and overwhelm our senses, really being attentive to those human needs. And I think the reason that that is of particular importance during change and transition is because it can be so easy to be caught up in the content of the thing that's happening. Right? Getting the kid ready to go to kindergarten, getting, a husband, you know, helping him get ready for changing a job, changing companies, getting ready to move into a different house across town.

Kenna Millea [00:33:09]:
Like, there's so many tasks that can be wrapped up in change. And so it's so easy, I think, to neglect these these basic things, but the reality is change puts demands on our nervous system. And so, we've got to be extra thoughtful about how I'm kind of replenishing, restoring that nervous system. And our basic human needs are a huge piece of that. So gotta be attentive to those things. I know we have a whole episode on self care, but I'll just give you the cliff notes to say, yeah, sleep, body movement, food, water, paying attention to, yeah, how you're filling up your calendar, how you're filling up your your stimulus through your eyes, your ears, touch, all of that just simplifying and slowing down life a little bit.

Pat Millea [00:33:53]:
So self care always important, always valuable, but maybe more than ever when there's a big change on the horizon or you're going through a period of transition.

Kenna Millea [00:34:02]:
Absolutely. For sure. So kind of with that, again, on that theme of slowing down, it's when we're making change in transition, you're asking more of yourself. Right? You're adding something new and usually pretty big onto your plate and a plate that for most of us is already full. You know, most of us are living lives at which we are we're we're maximizing our capacity. You know, we are really being stewards of the time and the talent and the energy that God has given us, which is great, but then when something new and demanding gets added on, we can be like, like, where's this going to go? Like, what shelf should I put this on? So slowing down and that is so counterintuitive. We talk about it as opposite action in DBT, in dialectical behavioral therapy, of slowing down at a time when you feel like you should be picking up the pace. And here's the other thing, is it's likely in this time of transition that you're doing new things, never before done before kinds of things.

Kenna Millea [00:35:04]:
And so to slow down, make sure that you are willfully choosing these things, that it's less out of knee jerk kind of, yeah. Responsiveness react reactivity, and more intentional choosing and deciding, like, yeah, this is how I wanna spend my time, or this is how I wanna spend my money, or this is how I want to, yeah, invest in this in this new change and transition. So, slowing down, it feels so antithetical to what life is like in the midst of a change or transition, but, oh my gosh, so important.

Pat Millea [00:35:41]:
So, like, you know, if someone is, transitioning transitioning jobs and, they don't have the same kind of time to commit to dinner prep or something like that with their family. Or it's back to school season, everyone has practices, and you don't have a lot of time for dinner prep. A lack of intentionality might lead to ordering pizza 5 nights in a row. Right? Yeah. And while that's easier on one level, that probably is not gonna make everyone in the family feel physically great after a week of that, and it's probably not consistent with what you or I want in terms of nutrition and health for our family. Right? Five straight nights of pizza. So all of us know the experience of, like, you just have to to, throw the white flag and order pizza one night because things get crazy. We all get that.

Pat Millea [00:36:33]:
But intentionality might mean, okay, if I don't have time to prep dinner this evening, what steps can I take so that I can make something that is healthy, doesn't take forever, and I can still meet the obligations of the new job, the school year, the practice schedule, whatever that is?

Kenna Millea [00:36:49]:
Yeah. No. For sure. And I think too that touches on this idea of, like, how can we hold on to our values in the midst of a time that's that's changing, that maybe my schedule is changing? I know for me, that's really difficult in the summer when, like, every day is something different. You know, one day I'm running a kid to golf really early in the morning. The other day I'm running a kid to a football camp really early in the morning. And and so it it messes with my usual flow that's so different from the school year where things are more consistent, of course. But like, what are some small ways that I can hang onto those values? So for me, like, it's not always getting to have my morning prayer routine.

Kenna Millea [00:37:30]:
It might be just simply listening to a podcast while we drive or asking that child to pray a decade of the rosary with me on the way to, on the way to dropping off for camp. But, but holding onto that and seeing like, okay, like I still feel anchored in who I am in the midst of this time that feels really foreign, feels really different than what I'm accustomed to, maybe isn't even what I want going on in this season. How can I hold on to those, you know, things in a maybe on a smaller scale? It could also mean creating routines and rituals, even little ones. You know, this is a really dramatic example maybe, but when my sister died, Pat, you and I flew down to South Carolina where she's from, where her husband lives, right away. And we were staying with some friends of hers, and the days were just kind of wild. I mean, we were at court, we were planning a funeral, we were visiting with friends, we were visiting with her, colleagues and teachers and things like that. So every day was kind of something different. But every morning, we would like get up, go for a walk around the neighborhood, just kind of a small ritual in a in a in a world, in a time, in a moment that felt so very foreign that neither of us were prepared for.

Kenna Millea [00:38:47]:
Like, it was just a little something to ground us and to help us feel like I do have some control. Right? That's so hard. Change and transition presents this challenge to our sense of control. So I think routines and rituals can can be that little bit of, okay, like, I got to call the shots on that, and I feel like I'm in the driver's seat of my life, which is so important.

Pat Millea [00:39:10]:
And that's that's a good distinction I think too about the different degrees and types of change and transition even. That every person will have a different level of tolerance and capability of handling chaos in general and change. I am the kind of person who's happy to wake up in the morning and say, what are we doing today? What's what's on the docket? Right? That stresses you out, my beautiful bride, to no end. And you like to have a forecast days in advance of what the week's gonna look like. Right? So that's one way that we are different. Neither is good or bad. It's just the way that you tolerate chaos and, uncertainty day to day. Right? That's the kind of small level change and everyone has their own different levels.

Pat Millea [00:39:53]:
But then there's the big changes that happen. And even though I am someone who's really easy I I can easily handle daily uncertainty, I can handle spontaneity, and I'm really comfortable with that. There have been a lot of times in our life together where you brought up some kind of a a change. Maybe we were gonna have a new baby soon. Maybe we were contemplating a move. Maybe it's something as simple as, like, how are we gonna landscape the front yard or something like that. And this feeling in me of, like, oh, we just got done with the last change. I just need I need to not change anything for a while.

Pat Millea [00:40:29]:
Right? So even with all of my comfort and tolerance of chaos on kind of a small scale, I I I kinda resist those big changes at times when it feels like I've had too much of that recently, you know.

Kenna Millea [00:40:40]:
Yeah. Which I think is understandable. Like you said, you're pressing up against your window, kind of maxing out at capacity, for that change. Yeah. So another thing that I think is important when we are, preparing for in the midst of a season of transition, is connection, to those who love you, to help them to know that this is hard for you, or that you're, you know, kind of gearing up for it and putting more thought, more energy, maybe more prayer toward this change, so that they can support you in that. And also connection to those who've gone before you in maybe a similar season. So I know for us, Pat, when you had you had a season of being at home with all of our kids after leaving ministry. And I remember a conversation we had with a couple who, the husband stayed home with their children in their younger little little kid years.

Kenna Millea [00:41:39]:
And so just talking to them being like, how was it? You know, what things were helpful for you? And it's not because you're going to carbon copy, exactly what those other folks did, but that it can spark ideas that you can have this sense of, of I'm not alone, you know, that it can kind of resist the temptation and feel so isolated and like we're the only ones going through this. So reaching out and letting those know those folks know, like, I want connection. I wanna learn from your wisdom. I wanna be able to, yeah, benefit from the the trail you have forged on your own. I also think, like, when I'm thinking about connection, you know, when I'm working with clients or thinking about for myself to encourage that there are people in your, you know, inner circle, I like to think of it as, who will allow you the ambivalence that comes with change and transition. I I truly cannot think of anything in this life that registers on the scale that doesn't carry ambivalence. It doesn't carry that bittersweetness, that both and of pleasant, lovely, desirable emotions and difficult upset, maybe undesirable emotion. You know, even things as objectively, purely wonderful, like having a baby, it brings excitement and joy and it brings terror and overwhelm.

Kenna Millea [00:43:07]:
Things like, you know, getting promoted at work can bring both, a sense of, of yeah, feeling, feeling seen, feeling valued and the joy that comes with that, and also feeling scared about imposter syndrome and scared that you can really live up to the task. There's so much ambivalence. And so to have people in your community who will give you the space and the flexibility to express the whole, you know, rainbow of emotions off of our feeling wheel to to reference back to our emotions episode, I think that's really important and and can help support each of us, like, in the space we need to, like, sort through the tangles and the, I don't know, the complexity that change often brings.

Pat Millea [00:43:52]:
That strikes me as one of the many reasons that change is so abhorrent to us as human beings sometimes, you know, that, I think the the nature of humanity, ironically, is that we resist change. Not not not everyone to the same degree, but I think everyone has this discomfort with, like, but I'd I'd rather it be predictable and stable, you know, but that's the nature of humanity. CS Lewis one time described time as nothing more than change. That time, the nature of time, is that it is just the measure of things changing. That's it. That our world, our bodies, our minds, our relationships are constantly changing at all times, and yet we desire something permanent. We desire something stable. He said we desire something eternal.

Pat Millea [00:44:42]:
So it makes sense that change rubs up against our humanity because we were not made for this temporal passing world. We were made for something that doesn't change. We were made for something that is eternally adventurous and joyful and love for heaven itself. Right? But there are so many ways that in our humanity we resist change and a lot of it comes down to what you're talking about. That change always opens up this new realm of possibilities and a lot of things could be better after this change, but there's a real risk that some things could be worse. Yeah. Right? Like, I I could step in in this new promotion and I could make more money, have more success, be a a more fulfilled version of the gifts that God has given me, or I could fail miserably and I could get fired and everyone could be frustrated at my lack of competence in this new role. Right? Mhmm.

Pat Millea [00:45:35]:
When I'm having a baby, not me. When you're having a baby and I

Kenna Millea [00:45:39]:
We are having the baby.

Pat Millea [00:45:40]:
When we are having a baby You

Kenna Millea [00:45:41]:
better be with me on having that baby.

Pat Millea [00:45:43]:
In baby bearing. That's right.

Kenna Millea [00:45:47]:
That's a visual.

Pat Millea [00:45:48]:
When there's a new baby arriving, all of these beautiful gifts and and just the love and the joy and and the sense of purpose and being a part of creation along with God that all those are undeniable. But there's also this risk of loving someone and putting your heart out there, you know, and the risk of partnering with a spouse in parenting. And some of the ways that those relationships are challenged by this new person who's depend on you on you for everything, you know. And so much change has to do with grief too, like you're talking about. Like saying goodbye to something else. The the birth of a first child means the death of all of my free time. The death of my weekend nights where I can just go to a brewery with my spouse with no second thoughts. Having a second child means the death of my privileged alone time with this one baby and just pouring out all my love into this one human being.

Pat Millea [00:46:45]:
It certainly is not worse and in our experience is exponentially better than every baby brings new joys that we could never predict. But there is this sense of grief and loss with any version of change. And I think it's really valuable to to look that in the eye and to be real about that so that we know exactly what we're going through when we're not trying to dismiss these emotions and feelings and frustrations as they come up.

Kenna Millea [00:47:09]:
Which is precisely my last point, which is to validate, to acknowledge the difficulty. And yeah, absolutely. Like just for in our, in our own internal process, right? So whether that's in prayer, whether it's in journaling, it's in conversation with others, when you're doing your reflection, how can you acknowledge the complexity and the richness, of the experience of whatever it is that you're going through and resist the temptation to, to make it 2 dimensional, you know, and, and to flatten the experience. But to trust that you've got what it takes to digest it in, in living color, three-dimensional, the fullness of it. Because in my mind, that's when I look at my clients who emerge from changes and transitions as even more, beautiful, you know, progressed versions of themselves, more mature versions of themselves. They're those who really give themselves the space, risk the discomfort of yeah. Of of sifting through the upset feelings, sifting through the surprises. There are always gonna be surprises.

Kenna Millea [00:48:25]:
Right? Even even with a change in a transition that you can anticipate, like, there are always going to be surprises, sometimes to varying degrees, but something is gonna not go according to plan. And so those who really let themselves grapple with that, I think emerge stronger, more adventurous. And I mean that in the broadest sense of like, okay, Lord, like, what are you asking of my life? What do you want from me? My gosh, I didn't even know this was possible, but you know, here I am in this new season and, you know, bring it on. They are the ones who I look at and I'm like, yeah, like you are ready for so, so much. It's not just about this one thing that we journey through therapy with. Like, you've got a template for how to, receive and engage change and transition going forward. So that's, that's beautiful, but that validation is really important. I I said something earlier that I just wanna come back to because I'm remembering this conversation I had with a friend recently, that change and transition presents an addition.

Kenna Millea [00:49:27]:
I didn't mean for that to rhyme. Okay. So that's kind of goofy, but change and transition presents an addition to our already full plates. When we say like, why is this so hard? Like even something so wonderful, like why is it so hard? Because we already felt maxed out and now something else is being asked of us. We already had our plans, our preconceived notions. We had our ideas, our dreams, our hopes, and now that's being changed. And even if it's for the better, as you've pointed out, Pat, there is still that hint of uncertainty and there's still that sense of, I don't know if I can do it. Right? I I literally concretely don't know how I'm going to do it.

Pat Millea [00:50:05]:
To me, it's the feeling of, like, driving home from work, and you've made that drive 400 times, and you know exactly how to get home. You don't need the GPS, but all of a sudden, this one day, the road is closed for construction. And now all of a sudden you're like, oh my goodness. I have no literally no idea how to get home now. Like, this is the road. This is the only road. How do I get home from here? Thanks be to God. We have phones that can get us anywhere we need to.

Pat Millea [00:50:29]:
But there is that initial panic of like, ah,

Kenna Millea [00:50:32]:
ah, that's such that's a great metaphor. That's a really apt metaphor. Yeah. And so I was talking to this friend the other day and, and he he was sharing in in a very vulnerable moment like that he and his wife are praying about adding another child to their family, bringing another child into this world. And, and he said, I'm just struggling because it's already so hard with the children we have. And so the thought of bringing another on, I'm like, woah. And I said, absolutely. Because right now you're envisioning bringing that new baby home to the life you and your family share now, but that's not what will happen.

Kenna Millea [00:51:08]:
It will be a different life. It will have to be a different life. You will have to do things differently. There will have to be a new division and conquering of the tasks and managing and rearing the children if you bring a new baby into your family. And so I think too, as we stand at the precipice of change or transition, it can be hard to even believe that such a thing could be asked of us because we're, we're trying to imagine integrating that new thing into our current life. And it's like, no, no, no, no. Things are gonna get pushed around on the plate. Something is gonna have to move and give.

Kenna Millea [00:51:38]:
I'm gonna have to rework things, outsource things, you know, call on skills and strengths that I don't currently possess or that aren't very strong right now, that I don't like using even perhaps. But something's gonna have to be different to make room for this and change and transition from a mental health perspective is, okay. Can I do that? Can I can I get the things that I need? All these things that we've just been talking about. Can I intentionally and actively seek those out so that I can make this transition well? And that is tough, and it's what this life is about. It is so much of what this life is about.

Pat Millea [00:52:15]:
So somebody listening right now Yeah. Is going through a transition in the next 6 months almost without exception. So what what's a good challenge by choice that you would give to somebody about how to how to approach this idea of change and transition well?

Kenna Millea [00:52:29]:
Yeah. Yeah. So, it's a reflective exercise here, so not maybe as concrete as other challenges by choice, but I think taking some time to consider how have I typically responded to change and transition in the past? You know, do I tend to be really flustered and overwhelmed? Do I tend to have like a catastrophic doomsday kind of response, of, you know, chicken little in the sky is falling and this is gonna be the worst thing ever. Do I tend to get really sad and isolate? Do I tend to pull back from others? Do I tend to have a very Pollyanna like naive perspective? And, maybe even one that that leads me to be under prepared when the change comes? Cause I just assume like, Oh, it'd be final. I'll, I'll move through it. Do I tend to resist change in transition? Just like looking at patterns, like how do you tend to react when changes upon you? So that's question number 1. And then the second is with that, what is and isn't working about that? You know, we assume that if that's become your way in in the world of psychotherapy, we say like, gosh, something about that must be working for you. And we imagine that there are elements of it that maybe could be improved that are that are somewhat maladaptive and could be tweaked to be even more supportive of who you are, who God's calling you to be.

Kenna Millea [00:53:59]:
So my example real quick, my challenge by choice that I spent this morning working on, is when change comes, I tend to be focused on the tasks related to the change. So I'm really great at making lists, at running errands, like doing all the prep, doing the research. Love to read blogs and reviews. My husband will tell you.

Pat Millea [00:54:19]:
Don't I know it?

Kenna Millea [00:54:20]:
I'm really great at handling the logistics and yeah. The the the tasks, connected to the change. But I'm not so great at noticing the people that are affected by this change. So what's working for me in that is I'm really efficient and it allows me, I think, to manage a lot of change in transition pretty well. What's not working for me, is that I think the relationships, which I say I really value, I I proclaim, I profess that people are are most important to me in this life, in this world, that they can tend to be overlooked. So something that I might consider coming out of that reflection is, like, okay. The next time change or transition is coming my way, such as back to school time, how might I be more attentive than I usually am inclined to the people, checking in with them, being thoughtful that in my kind of hurried nature to get stuff done and get things checked off the list, that I'm not, like, trampling the humans that I really value around me. So that's a quick application of that on myself.

Pat Millea [00:55:26]:
We appreciate that. Thank you

Kenna Millea [00:55:28]:
for your thank you

Pat Millea [00:55:29]:
for your attendance. For not

Kenna Millea [00:55:30]:
trampling? Yep.

Pat Millea [00:55:30]:
To all of us. We appreciate that. Yep. Yep.

Kenna Millea [00:55:34]:
Can you pray for us?

Pat Millea [00:55:35]:
I would love to pray for us. Let's do that. Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, amen. God of life and love, you made us for yourself, and you lead us on this earthly pilgrimage back home to you. Lord, in this life, we experience so much change and transition and upheaval, and so much of it can, feel uncomfortable and challenging to us. So we ask for you to be our strength and our stability in the course of any changes that we're facing. I pray especially for those who are facing big changes soon, changes that will, affect the way that they live, the way that they relate to others. I pray for their wisdom and for their prudence in listening to your voice in the midst of the storm, and, to stay close to you and close to those that you've put in their in their path as well.

Pat Millea [00:56:32]:
We ask all this, Jesus, in your name. Amen.

Kenna Millea [00:56:35]:
Amen. In the name

Pat Millea [00:56:36]:
of the father, the son, and the holy spirit. Amen. Amen. Well, if you're listening to this whole life, don't change a thing. Keep listening. Change you can change whatever else you want, but don't change that. It's a joy to be with you as always my bride. It's a joy to be with you good listener.

Pat Millea [00:56:53]:
You can check out more of our episodes at this whole life podcast.com. You can follow a lot of our new and fun approaches to social media at on Instagram at this whole life podcast and on Facebook as well. And the whole life podcast and on Facebook as well. And we will see you next time.

Kenna Millea [00:57:09]:
Till then, God bless you. This whole life is a production Welcome back to This Whole Life, everyone. It is wonderful to be with you, particularly What? No eye contact.

Pat Millea [00:57:53]:
Sorry. No. You were doing great. I didn't want to, mess up your flow.