Ep55 Addiction & Recovery w/ Scott Weeman

"So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed."
~ John 8:36

Is there hope for people who are stuck in addiction?
Is healing really possible for everyone?
If God really knows what I've done, how could he forgive me?

In episode 55 of "This Whole Life," Pat engages in a profound conversation with guest Scott Weeman, founder of Catholic In Recovery. Scott shares his personal journey through addiction and finding a path to recovery through faith and humility. He reveals the connection he identified between the 12 Step recovery process and the sacraments, shedding light on the universal spiritual truths embedded within them.

The dialogue delves into the significance of building a supportive community, reclaiming a sense of purpose, and finding hope amidst difficulty. Scott's insightful reflections and practical advice offer a beacon of encouragement to those navigating the complexities of addiction and seeking hope when things seem darkest. Join Pat and Scott on this transformative journey towards humility, recovery, and wholeness.

Scott Weeman is the founder of Catholic In Recovery and the author of The Twelve Steps and the Sacraments: A Catholic Journey through Recovery. Scott was born and raised in northeast Wisconsin, and after high school he attended college in New York City and his experience around drugs and alcohol started to spin out of control. After a series of unconventional events, he found himself seeking the mercy of the Lord through the Catholic community in San Diego. Scott supports others in their recovery by writing on a variety of Catholic and twelve-step topics, speaking at events, and developing one-on-one relationships with those seeking help. He enjoys a wide range of recreational activities including sports, cooking, hiking, reading, traveling, and relaxing over a pot of hot tea. Scott lives with his wife and children in Nashville, Tennessee.

Episode 55 Show Notes

Chapters:
0:00: Introduction and Highs & Hards
10:13: Scott's story of addiction & recovery
21:57: Christianity & the 12 Steps
31:57: Facing & overcoming shame
41:51: The virtue of humility (and humiliation) in recovery
50:51: Finding joy & handling social situations in recovery
56:16: Challenge By Choice

Questions for Reflection & Discussion:

1. What is one specific thing that stuck with you from this conversation?
2. What experiences do you have in common with Scott's journey of addiction and recovery?
3. In what ways do you, and those closest to you, struggle with freedom from addiction and compulsions?
4. What is one substance or behavior that you feel challenged to give up for 3 weeks in order to gain greater freedom?

Thank you for listening! Visit us online at thiswholelifepodcast.com, and send us an email with your thoughts, questions, or ideas.

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Interested in more faith-filled mental health resources? Check out the Martin Center for Integration

Music: "You're Not Alone" by Marie Miller. Used with permission.

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction and Highs & Hards
• 10:13 Scott's story of addiction & recovery
• 21:57 Christianity & the 12 Steps
• 31:57 Facing & overcoming shame
• 41:51 The virtue of humility (and humiliation) in recovery
• 50:51 Finding joy & handling social situations in recovery
• 56:16 Challenge By Choice

Transcript

Scott Weeman [00:00:00]:
One day, he held up the Bible and said this book is for people who don't wanna go to hell and the big book and said this book is for people who have been there and have no interest in ever going back. And that was, yeah, very I could understand that.

Pat Millea [00:00:19]:
Welcome to This Whole Life, a podcast for all of us seeking sanity and sanctity, and a place to find joy and meaning through the integration of faith and mental health. I'm Pat Millea, a Catholic speaker, musician, and leader, and I'm happy to bring you this podcast along with my bride, Kenna, a licensed marriage and family therapist. This is the stuff she and I talk about all the time, doing dishes, in the car, on a date. We're excited to bring you this podcast for educational purposes. It's not therapy or a substitute for mental health care. So come on in. Have a seat at our dining room table and join the conversation with us. We are so glad you're here.

Pat Millea [00:01:08]:
Welcome back to This Whole Life, my friends. It is good to be with you today, tonight, this morning, whenever you listen to this. One of the great joys of podcasting is you could be listening to this 3 years from now or 13 years from now or at 3 in the morning nursing a child or wherever you find yourself, whenever it is. We hope you're having a blessed day and that, your walk with the Lord is going well. I'm really excited for our episode today. We've got Scott Weeman with us today. Scott was born and raised in Northeast Wisconsin, and he went to college out in New York City. And a big part of his journey that we'll get into in a moment takes place in and around the San Diego area as well.

Pat Millea [00:01:48]:
And through his own experience with with addiction and recovery, he's been able to blend some of the really beautiful spiritual tools available through addiction recovery with the wisdom of our Catholic church and founded the nonprofit called Catholic in Recovery. He's been able to write and speak on the connection between faith and recovery and specifically with his book called The 12 Steps and the Sacraments, A Catholic Journey Through Recovery. And he recently just moved to Nashville, Tennessee with his family, and it's a blessing to have him with us. Scott, welcome to This Whole Life.

Scott Weeman [00:02:24]:
Yeah. I'm really honored to be here. Thank you. And I appreciate the chance to discuss all that we'll get into today. And, yeah, grateful for your audience as well joining us.

Pat Millea [00:02:32]:
You and me both. Thank you. Thank you. I know this is a this is a topic and it's an issue that touches a lot of people on a very personal level, and it's one that I think a lot of people have, really good and honest questions about as well. So I'm excited to get into to our conversation today. As we always do, I'd love to offer you the chance as our guests to offer a bit of a high and hard in your life in the past few weeks here. So, what have, things been like for you?

Scott Weeman [00:02:59]:
Yeah. So just having moved to, Nashville, Tennessee from San Diego, California, I think that's kind of where some of that stems from. So we're about 6 or 7 weeks here. And I've been, you know, doing what we can to form community. We've got a great parish that we've been part of, a large parish, as the pastor describes it, a small parish with lots of people, but it's a a pretty big parish. Really well run and and, you know, the gospel is shared there in a a variety of ways. And, but so I would say that the hard has been kind of going from a place and, you know, having formed community in San Diego, both in my recovery groups and in my in my church where, you know, typically know most people and they know me and, kinda transitioning now to where rather anonymous, which has its benefits as well. But, you know, I think that especially I've I've learned in my 13 years of recovery or so that, connection with others is really vital.

Scott Weeman [00:04:00]:
Fellowship both in the church and in recovery, is is critical. I mean, there's a host of people in San Diego who saw me walk in the the rooms of 12 Step Recovery on day 1, and, I was a very different person than I am today. And, but, you know, there's a great value and benefit of having people who have known me that well and for that long. And now getting connected with people here, it's, you know, wanting to share the all of me, and there's opportunity for that and more opportunity will come. But just that, yeah, being a bit unknown and not also, you know, knowing people to turn to to have a real honest, heart to heart conversation has been a bit of an adjustment. So I'll I'll describe that as my hard. And, yeah, the highs, though, is similarly related though that, you know, I've gotten connected with a few great 12 step recovery groups out here to support my recovery. It's an ongoing process, never cured by the grace of God.

Scott Weeman [00:04:57]:
I get find healing one day at a time. And they had an event this past weekend that was a a bit of a a gathering, a party, and I brought my Anthem of speakers meeting afterwards. And I brought my wife and kids to that, and we've got our kids are are little 5, 3, and 2 years old. They all all have birthdays coming up in the next few months. Mhmm. And, you know, my recovery life is one that I've, you know, first got sober when I was single and then invite you know, my wife knows that part of me very well. But also kind of integrating my family and my kids into that life. And as my kids are getting older, having honest conversations about them with how I got to know God and the miracles that he's worked in my life will surely, involve these discussions of what life was like for me before, surrendering to Jesus and finding a fellowship which saved my life.

Scott Weeman [00:05:48]:
And so it was a bit of a, yeah, just an opportunity to connect them and, with them. And at the same time, you know, it's kind of a it's beginning to, resolve what I described as my heart in that, you know, community getting to know me and me getting to know others in the community, kinda beginning to bridge that gap.

Pat Millea [00:06:06]:
That's beautiful. That's beautiful. Thanks for sharing that. Yeah. That's with all the conversations that we have with with so many wonderful guests and even with me and Kenna, there are so many times that the high and hard are really just two sides of the same experience, the same, the same process. You know? That's just the way human life tends to go, I suppose. So thank you for for sharing that with us. It's a real blessing to have you here.

Pat Millea [00:06:31]:
For me, I think my my hard and similarly, two sides of the same coin. My hard is that we're coming to the end now, 2 weeks of travel for Kenna and I for a few different work events. Kenna, is gone this week. She, was in New York doing some work with an organization that we help with with some training around mental, emotional, spiritual health, for some young adult missionaries. And then, she is at Notre Dame, which I know you're familiar with with your book through Ave Maria as well. So she's there with the McGrath Institute and their, some of their work with the Fiat program for mental health, which is a great gift. It's both of our alma maters. So she gets to go back to the homeland and I'm very jealous.

Pat Millea [00:07:16]:
So she's been there this week. Last week I had got to have an equally exciting trip to Champaign, Illinois, which is just as exciting as, you know, New York City and Notre Dame. Just kidding. Champaign is not the most thrilling city in the world, but, it was a high to actually go. I guess my hard is just being separate from my bride for, you know, most of the past 2 weeks. We've been able to stay connected, obviously, but, it'll be really good for her to get back tomorrow so that we can actually go on a date and talk about things that aren't just practical, making sure that kids are getting to the right places, things like that. You know, the high was definitely being in champagne. I get to do some work every year with Catholic heart work camp, which is a youth mission trip organization.

Pat Millea [00:08:01]:
So I get to do some speaking during typically one week of the summer for high schoolers that gather together to to do charitable service projects during the day. And then there are these kind of retreat elements at night. And for someone who is a former youth minister, there are lots of parts of that world that I don't miss, like paperwork and some of the, you know, personal dynamics of working in a parish sometimes. But I really miss all of the relational ministry, both with coworkers and parents and especially teens. So it's just a great blessing to be able to to have a lot of kind of carefree time with youth to just talk, you know? And it turns out if you for a lot of high schoolers, not everyone, but for a lot of them, if you sit and listen long enough, they will just talk forever. And maybe they don't have a lot of people that talk there that listen to them on a frequent basis. So it was a real gift to be able to to speak in the evenings for sure. But even more than that, to be able to listen during the days and just be invited to their lives a little bit.

Pat Millea [00:09:02]:
So it's a great Very cool. It's a great blessing.

Scott Weeman [00:09:04]:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, my, the parish that I grew up in, although I will maybe describe my background a little bit in it. But nominally Catholic is how I describe my upbringing, Christmas, Easter, a few extra credit weekends a year, and then, CCD on Wednesday nights. But as part of this, you know, our catechism and and faith formation, we also took trips to the Catholic heart work camp. I didn't attend because probably the nominal nature of my faith, but I know many who did and had a big, had a really big influence in in their in their faith as young people. And perhaps if I had gone, you know, I don't have any well, yeah, God has written a great story, but Right.

Scott Weeman [00:09:41]:
Maybe I wouldn't have gotten off the rails so much.

Pat Millea [00:09:43]:
Sure. Sure. Yeah. No. It's it's a real gift, and it's something that I really am excited for our kids to do someday as they get into high school. And I think that that blend of of practical charity and retreat and, very kind of introspective spiritual reflection is just a real beautiful blend that kind of catches what it means to be Catholic. You know, this great both and of in the world, but not of the world. So, yeah.

Pat Millea [00:10:09]:
No. That's beautiful. Well, again, really glad that you're here with us, Scott. I guess to to kind of get into the conversation, I I'd love if you would just help us get to know a little bit about your your background, your journey, kind of what brought you to this conversation around addiction and recovery in the first place?

Scott Weeman [00:10:26]:
Mhmm. Yes. So as I mentioned, grew up in Northeast Wisconsin, nominally Catholic, but still had this, you know, a really close connection or an understanding and a belief in God, which I would say got skewed over, several years into my late adolescence and early adulthood. But, it was, in fact, as you know, within weeks of receiving the sacrament of Confirmation, the gifts of the Holy Spirit, that I also took my first drink of alcohol. 17 years old. It was a May afternoon or evening as a friend of mine was back from college, and invited me to a a party with some other kids his age and asked, you know, as we were walking there on the railroad tracks in rural Wisconsin, he we had kinda stuffed our cargo pockets with some lukewarm Bud Lights and, took one out. And he said to me, Scott, don't think so much about what this is gonna taste like. It won't taste so great at first, but just think how good it will make you feel.

Scott Weeman [00:11:22]:
And, I love the feeling and, you know, didn't wouldn't say that I became an alcoholic after that first sip, but and I would probably also admit that there were some, some of the isms, already present in my life and waiting to be manifested. And, moved out to, New York City when I was, after high school on a policy debate scholarship. I was in policy debate in high school and into college. That lasted about 3 semesters in New York as my once I got out there, my priorities began to shift to seeking pleasure. And so, you know, through alcohol, drugs, women, it also was an escape from perhaps the new responsibilities and perhaps some social lubricants in order to help the, you know, begin. But I recognize well, I didn't really recognize. I thought that, you know, I kept putting off the things that were really important, school debates, family relationships, relationships back home. Mhmm.

Scott Weeman [00:12:23]:
And, you know, always tomorrow was gonna be the day where I took the right action and made things right. But, you know, today, I I just can't muster the courage or muster the action to do that into a, you know, daily, multiple times a day, smoking marijuana, getting into some heavier drugs, drinking regularly. And I was comparing myself to others my age who were doing seemingly some similar things. They, however, were often were mostly able to get back to school on Mondays, and I kept chasing that feeling on a regular basis and, shirking my responsibilities. And then, you know, shame the cycle of shame, began as well. And, you know, losing my sense of identity and my self esteem and, you know, just kind of seeking alcohol, drugs, lustful behaviors as both, you know, as my solution to the problems that were caused by my pursuit of alcohol, drugs, lustful behaviors. And this is this. That's the the, the the deadly cycle of addiction.

Scott Weeman [00:13:22]:
Moved back home shortly after. Got a second drunk driving, violation when I was 21 years old. At that time, I went to a treatment program for about 15 days, mostly just to kind of keep my parents off my back. Mhmm. And, you know, I stayed sober for about 8 months after that, but just a white knuckle sobriety. No spiritual solution or anything that was, a healthy alternative to what I was otherwise pursuing. Fell in love with a girl who was, very Catholic, loved, you know, and had a great family, a great Catholic family. I wanted what she had, but I wasn't willing to do anything to get it.

Scott Weeman [00:13:56]:
I thought perhaps by if I just stuck close enough to her by osmosis, I might, you know, get some of that, kinda describing a rather codependent relationship.

Pat Millea [00:14:05]:
Sure.

Scott Weeman [00:14:05]:
And that codependency worked both ways. And, she was an idol in many ways as well. You know, she kind of was my god. And I as long as I kept in her good graces, all would be okay. Of course, I started drinking shortly thereafter that relationship began and, you know, along came with it the deceit, the dishonesty, you know, all of all of the things that come along with that. We moved from Wisconsin to San Diego, California in 2010. I was 25 years old at the time when we made the move. I thought that a geographic change might change us, which is like switching seats in the Titanic.

Scott Weeman [00:14:43]:
And, that you know, I not didn't nothing, you know, made no internal changes, kind of resorted back to old behaviors when I got to San Diego. And, after about a year, we dipped our toes in the young adult community at a at a parish nearby and, you know, had kind of on and off and on and off. But, by the summer of 2011, you know, some events took place where she was just done and did really what she needed to do for herself and, you know, set some some firm boundaries and limits and, maintain those. Again, we still you know, I was doing whatever I could to stay in her good graces. You know, I spent about the next 2 months or so very isolated drinking, resorting to drugs, and doing really nothing to a positive for myself. She had reached out asking if I would edit one of her papers for a graduate program that she was in as, doing some social work or getting a degree in social work. And, you know, so I I agreed as I would always do to, you know, again, stay in her good graces. She emailed that paper over to me, said I'm gonna go for a run.

Scott Weeman [00:15:49]:
If you could have it done in an hour or so, that would be great. Of course, I lit up a marijuana joint and, in my little studio apartment and, it wasn't gonna look at it before doing that, of course, was the crazy mindset that I had. She, swing by my apartment, kind of with a smile on her face to initially knocked on the door, opened the door, smiled, turned to this look of disgust, could smell the marijuana, looked me in the eye, and said, you know, you are absolutely hopeless, Scott. You are never gonna change. And she was describing exactly the way that I was feeling, that I was never gonna change, that this was just gonna be a handicap that I lived with. And, you know, I had late earlier that year as well, I had dipped my toes into AA and found some people who I could connect with, but didn't really stay committed to it. After, you know, drinking that night, which at that point, I described my first drink. At that point, I didn't care what it tasted like.

Scott Weeman [00:16:44]:
I just knew that it would help me no longer feel the way that I was feeling. Yeah. Again, you know, these, addictions and compulsions were not only my problem, but also the the only solution that I knew really at the time. But, the next day, I pushed my little Beach Cruiser bike, one of the few things that I had left to my name, to into Mission Bay and kinda threw the heavy sand and pulled out my phone, which seemed to weigh about 500 pounds, and called a few close friends from back home, my mom and my dad, told them what they already knew, which was that I needed help. And I told them that I was gonna be going to a recovery meeting the next day, that, I knew I needed more help than that they could offer. And I probably didn't have this much self awareness at the time. But Sure. I just asked that, you know, I'm gonna check-in with you.

Scott Weeman [00:17:31]:
I haven't been accountable to anything in a long time or anyone in a long time. Kinda just, you know, check-in to see yeah. Just let you know that I hadn't drank that day or the night before. The next morning, I go to, you know, morning 12 step meeting and, get up to this Episcopal church a few blocks from the beach in Pacific Beach, San Diego. And, I could hear from the stairs, like, up the stairwell where the meeting was being held in the second floor, some laughter and camaraderie. I thought, if these people have any idea what I'm going through, there's no way that I I gotta be in the wrong place. Like, there why would they be laughing? There's no reason for them to be laughing. And, you know, made my way to the back corner of the room and took part in the meeting.

Scott Weeman [00:18:10]:
Don't really remember what I shared or anything like that after, you know, in the midst of the meeting. I do remember the the, the overwhelming feeling when it was coming around to me and we were all introducing ourselves and some were introducing them. You know, people are introducing themselves as alcoholics, and that was a term or, you know, something that I was having a hard time wrapping my hands around. After the meeting, we get got together in a circle, put our hands together, our arms around each other's shoulders, and prayed the Lord's prayer, which is one of the few prayers that I had remembered from my childhood. Mhmm. And just this overwhelming feeling of being home or being in the right place kinda took over. And I didn't have too long to sit with that as afterwards, a man darted across the room, and he looked me in the eye and he said, I know exactly how you feel. You don't ever have to drink again.

Scott Weeman [00:18:57]:
And, the man saved my life. He would have been among those people there, probably one of the last people that I would have chosen to save my life. But, he committed himself to me. He said, you and I are going on a journey together and neither one of us is coming back. And, took me to coffee that immediately. And each day, we would go through that routine. I mean, really, every day, go to a morning meeting, go to a coffee shop afterwards, and, work through the recovery literature and cross reference it with the with the Bible and scripture. And on day 3 of my recovery, I reached back I reached out to a guy who I had met as we were dip dipping our toes into the young adult community there in the Saint Brigid Parish in Pacific Beach, asking if he was still leading a Wednesday night bible study, which he was.

Scott Weeman [00:19:45]:
And I got there and kinda got connected with the fellowship and the church, people my age, who I dealt with some shame and insecurity around what brought me there or, you know, certainly my my, being an alcoholic and assuming that all of the people there were just, you know, on their way to sainthood, on the fast track to sainthood. And, you know, later turned out that, you know, we all have struggles. Sure. You know, and that, these challenges don't discriminate themselves or discriminate amongst us. And, yeah. So from there, the 12 steps of began working through the 12 steps and connecting with my faith, being of service in both recovery and in the church, and, saved my life and and the church and the sacraments, you know, offering the salvation. And, so a few years later, blending those 2 really the wisdom of 12 step recovery, which I thought that we as a church could learn from in the way that we provide and share the gospel in a very healing way and connect not on our shared strengths, but in our desperation for God and each other one day at a time. And also that there are plenty of people in 12 step recovery groups looking for a deeper relationship with their higher power, began writing a website or started a website, catholicinrecovery.com.

Scott Weeman [00:21:00]:
And, that was just a blog at first. Couple of you know, every other week, I would write an article that led to an opportunity to write a book, the 12 steps in the sacraments. And as that was being published, doing some local speaking in San Diego and that parishes, and, the best part of those speaking engagements was when I was done talking and other people had a chance to share about their challenges or recovery with addiction or their loved ones' challenges or recovery from addiction, but through the lens of our faith, the sacraments, scripture, things that are otherwise out of bounds in a secular 12 step group. So from there, Catholic and Recovery was born, and over the last 8 years or so, it has, grown into a worldwide community.

Pat Millea [00:21:42]:
What a gift. What a gift. Thanks so much for sharing that that journey, highs and lows along the way, and obviously, the Lord's hand at work in every bit of it, even in ways that were hard to see at the time, you know. I wonder, what was your first inclination that that your Catholic faith might be able to have a good healthy conversation with the 12 step process? You know, the it sounds like you were kind of returning to your Catholic faith. What what was the first inkling there there may be something that that both of them can be mutually supportive?

Scott Weeman [00:22:19]:
Yeah. You know, I had a the man who saved my life was very supportive, encouraged me to get to the church, find other people my age who were on a similar journey or that I could connect to within the faith. And, so this, you know, young adult group was really pivotal and helpful in meeting people and, you know, kind of making the the faith come to life. Now at the same time, as as he would often say, my original sponsor, you know, like, you really have your addiction recovery allows you to gives you something to bite your teeth into your faith into. And, you know, some real world application and desperately needed God and, you know, developing prayer habits and, surrendering to him and connecting with him. And so I was seeing maybe within the 1st year or 2, fellow young adults or other adults who were making the adult decision to become Catholic and going through RCIA and, was both encouraged and inspired by them and also a little bit envious of them as I had really gone through the motions as a you know, again, my adolescence and, you know, kind of through confirmation. And, it took a while and really with some help both from a deacon at my parish and, others, you know, my other people in recovery to come to understand that the movements that we make through the sacramental life are very similar to the movements in 12 that we go through as we're working through the 12 steps and in very practical ways. You know, we you know, this first couple of steps steps is act of surrender, you know, admitting that we're powerless over addictions, compulsions, and unhealthy attachments, that we need, find a power greater than ourselves and giving definition to him through the church as Jesus Christ and the trinitarian god that we know and love.

Scott Weeman [00:23:59]:
And, you know, and then, you know, through the sacrament of reconciliation, very similar to the movements of, step 4 when we make a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves. Step 5, we share that with God ourselves and another human being, the exact nature of our wrongs. And, you know, really asking him to remove whatever defects of character stand in the way of continuing to serve him and others, making amends or a penance. And so, yeah, really beginning to see some of that overlap and similarities. Now I had no idea that it would lead to writing a book or, forming a community, you know, kind of centered on those, 2 life saving blessings, the church and 12 Step Recovery.

Pat Millea [00:24:39]:
Mhmm.

Scott Weeman [00:24:39]:
And by the grace of God, I probably it's probably really good that I didn't know that at the time too. You know, it was really just dealing with things one day at a time and

Pat Millea [00:24:46]:
Sure.

Scott Weeman [00:24:47]:
But the blessing, you know, miracles were taking place. I no longer obsessed about the next drink or drug or or other addictive behaviors and, was free to love and serve God and my neighbor.

Pat Millea [00:24:58]:
One of our our good friends who's a frequent episode on the podcast is Father Nathan LaLiberte. He's a friend of ours up here in, the Twin Cities, and he has both this great, I think, genuine spiritual charisma of spiritual insight. And he's a great spiritual director because of that. But he also has a great gift and interest in addiction and recovery work. So he's been able to work with people through lots of different addiction processes, both through confession, obviously, but also just in counsel and, spiritual direction, things like that. So he cites the big book all the time in things that have nothing to do with addiction because of some of those connections that you're talking about that there there are just, these universal spiritual truths embedded in that 12 step process that really are are beneficial for everyone. And, you know, we'll we'll get there in a moment, but you've you've already kind of hinted at some of the connections between the 12 step process and the 7 sacraments that were given by Jesus and the church. What are what are some of the other connections between 12 step work and, the sacrament specifically?

Scott Weeman [00:26:08]:
Yeah. And just in response to that too, I think, you know, the big book is a really wonderful resource and can be applied to all of us. And, you know, it's often said and as as can the the wisdom and the beauty of the 12 steps. It oftentimes takes your life being, you know, you're kind of being your back being to the wall in order to do a lot of the honest work and inventory that it asks of you. Mhmm. But and as the gentleman who saved my life said, we would be meeting together each day and cross referencing the big book with the with the Bible and back and forth. And one day, he held up the Bible and said, this book is for people who don't wanna go to hell and the big book and said, this book is for people who have been there and have no interest in ever going back. And that was, yeah, very I could understand that and, you know, really brought to life a lot of the teachings of Jesus, the beatitudes, but beyond that.

Scott Weeman [00:26:54]:
And even, you know, was compelled to not only read all the pages of the big book, but the Bible as well and to develop a spiritual life really rooted in truth. And, boy, it was so exciting. Some of the a lot of the gospel messages and and stories were were new to me, and it was just like I wanted more and more and more. And, back to your question, though, I think, you know, there are others you know, I think even just in the way that we we can't go about, you know, our faith life by ourselves. We need the support of others, mentors. We even refer to someone as our sponsor in many in many ways, like our confirmation sponsors, very similar to in recovery, we have a sponsor who can provide some individual attention and walk us through the spiritual progress that we make. Mhmm. Getting back to the steps, you know, we're never done or healed with the steps just like we are never free of sin in the church.

Scott Weeman [00:27:45]:
We continually need, you know, each other God's grace, like the manna that comes from the sky. And, as Moses is bringing the Israelites to the promised land, you know, we, can only count on today's blessings. We can't I can't count on what I did yesterday to fulfill my spiritual life today.

Pat Millea [00:28:02]:
Mhmm.

Scott Weeman [00:28:02]:
It certainly helps to build a foundation and develop really healthy practices that become routine. But, yeah, is I need a daily re I get a daily reprieve based on the maintenance of my spiritual condition.

Pat Millea [00:28:14]:
Mhmm.

Scott Weeman [00:28:14]:
And that's true of both my my life in recovery and then my life in the church, which don't need to be separated, but can, you know, run very parallel with each other. You know, that daily bread is exactly what we do in steps 10 11 as well. And we know that, you know, building well, first, continuing to, make amends when wrong and, you know, promptly admitting it and improving our conscious contact with God through prayer and meditation on a daily basis. Now there's no better way to consciously contact God than through the Eucharist and the daily bread and nourishment that we see receive, from him. The grace to, you know, live each day successfully. And then similarly as well, step 12, we carry the message to others having had a spiritual awakening and to practice these principles in all of our affairs. And that's the same message that we're called to act upon, through, you know, that Jesus extorts that, you know, share this message with others, baptizing them in the name of the father, the son, and the holy spirit. He gives us the recipe too when he returns after the resurrection.

Scott Weeman [00:29:18]:
He, you know, holds out his hands, shows his wounds, and offers a message of peace. And, you know, that's what the man who saved my life did for me as well. I know exactly how you feel. You don't ever have to drink again. The greatest gifts in life are those that, we can only keep if we're willing to give them away, our faith, my sobriety, my recovery, my life. And, so I think that those are universal truths that can be applied in in for all of us and are maybe worded in a different way in recovery than the church, but Sure. Very very parallel.

Pat Millea [00:29:52]:
And I love the hope that that gentleman offered you in that first meeting as well, the the the knowledge that maybe, you know, kind of broke through some of the shame that you were talking about and the just the the nature of all sinners, but in particularly to those with kind of compulsive behaviors, the the the deceit, the dishonesty, the hiding of behaviors, things like that, that someone actually knows what you're going through. And there's nothing that you need to hide from someone like that. But not only are you known, but there's the hope of a good future as well. That there's there's a promise that God is waiting to keep in your life, that there it doesn't have to be this way forever. You know, I I I love that that that kind of a personal, very intentional contact with another human being is such a great source of God's work in your life.

Scott Weeman [00:30:44]:
Mhmm. And I think it can inform how we share the gospel message with others. And, you know, we're called to evangelize and be disciples, which two words that come with a light, I think, can be a little bit intimidating. But, you know, simply just sharing. I'm I am the I have the authority over my life story. I'm not necessarily a theologian, so I can't you know, getting into the weeds of, like, the the the intellectual reasons for why one must be Catholic. I mean, I've certainly formed that a lot over the years, but Sure. You know, can certainly find people who I relate to and can relate to me.

Scott Weeman [00:31:17]:
And, I think we can learn from that. That's a simple message of offering hope for another and connecting on this dependence upon God. You're you're spot on.

Pat Millea [00:31:28]:
Yeah. Yeah. That conversation around shame and hope strikes me as one of the great conversations or connections between addiction and recovery and mental health. And, you know, mental health, mental illness, mental well-being is kind of the grand umbrella for this whole life, in not necessarily just a clinical expression, of course, the way that my mental health is connected to my spiritual health, my marriage, my work, my family of origin, things like that. So either from from your personal experience, from things that you've seen in your work with Catholic in recovery, what are some of the connections and hope that is offered for folks in in their mental and emotional well-being in particular through the recovery process?

Scott Weeman [00:32:14]:
Yeah. I think it starts with the shame and overcoming shame. And whether one identifies themselves as having an addiction or a compulsion or an unhealthy attachment or is just caught in the fog of some, mental and emotional challenges. It's oftentimes and for me, it was a long time that that shame kept me from taking any positive action. Mhmm. It actually the shame, you know, which which is kind of counterintuitive and from an outsider would think, well, why don't you just do something different? But, you know, the shame was so heavy and so burdensome that, you know, I was oftentimes looking for a quick solution to overcome that shame. You know, alcohol and drugs and other addictive behaviors were a very quick way to relieve myself of that shame. Now they also came with great consequences and, you know, pro kinda prolonged the challenges that I was having.

Scott Weeman [00:33:05]:
But we you know, I think connecting on a human to human level where that shame can be dissipated is so important. And so when we show up to recovery meetings or connect with other people who have been through similar challenges as we have, you know, just the shared experience that the yes, I've been there too. I know how you feel, can go a long way. And, you know, I think that sometimes in the culture of our church, we'd seem to we tend to, you know, kind of present our strengths and I've got it all going on, and you've got it all going on. Right? We're good. You're good. I'm good. Okay.

Scott Weeman [00:33:38]:
We're good. And, you know, the beauty of recovery fellowships is that, you know, we come together not by our shared strengths, but our shared weaknesses and dependence upon each other and God. And, you know, when someone walks in who's new to recovery or new or coming back after a relapse, you know, we don't shoot our wounded. And, instead, we provide just, you know, oftentimes referring back to what it was like for us, what happened, and what it's like now as a kind of a framework and an outline for sharing hope. And I think that, you know, whether we're speaking with loved ones or fellows who are, you know, in that fog of shame, I think that we can do a great service by getting down and meeting them on their level.

Pat Millea [00:34:17]:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think, you know, in kind of reflecting on on this whole idea on a spiritual level as well, I think a lot of us have, elements of shame in our daily life because whether or not an individual person is dealing with a genuine addiction in the clinical sense, all of us are sinners and all of us come back to it's a Romans 715. I don't practice what I want to do because I'm doing the very thing I hate. Right? The the idea that we as human beings have been given an intellect that unless there's some major deficiency in our upbringing or in our formation, we generally know what the right and wrong things to do are. And us sinners, thanks to concupiscence and original sin, we just lean in the direction of sin too often that there's there's that attachment there that as you say, just like, you know, someone in recovery is will always be working their recovery that there's no cure quote unquote where it's not something that they have to commit to daily. Every sinner coming out of confession has to commit to virtue over and over again and be prepared for the battle within that leads me in the direction of things that I know aren't good for me, you know.

Pat Millea [00:35:33]:
So that that strikes me obviously as kind of a universal truth that, the 12 step, the recovery process might offer to anyone, with any experience with sin. Are there other kind of, universal truths that you would say are seeds of wisdom and truth that apply to to basically anyone regardless of their experience with substances or other addictions?

Scott Weeman [00:36:00]:
Yeah. I think I mean, I think there's so much things and so many so when I, you know, showed up to this this recovery meeting that saved my life and continues to save my life, there were some, like, little quotes on the wall, like, little slogans on the wall, which were very simple. And I thought this great, good for them, but, you know, I'm a complex guy and I need complex solutions. And, boy, was I wrong. You know, things like, act as if or just for today or, you know, things along those lines, that's Sure. I really have have been universally I think can be universally applied. This too shall pass. You know, I think that sometimes and I I find this both, you know, in in sober and not sober.

Scott Weeman [00:36:45]:
But, yeah, in my sober life and even you know, I gotta be very clear too. Like, you know, there's not the obsession to drink or, like, the struggle with addiction is no longer there, but still, you know, I attend meetings first also to pass the message along to those who are who have, you know, who are seeking help Mhmm. Just as one man did for me. I can never repay what's been freely given, you know, in full. But, you know, I can I can certainly share hope with others? But also just to deal with the day to day life, like, you know, how to, deal with challenges. Deal with dealing with resentments and fear, which and, you know, the the tug of isolation, which we are none of us are immune from. You know, one of the very important aspects of the 12 steps, we do a very thorough moral inventory of ourselves, which is not to say that, the presence of an addiction is a moral referendum on ourselves or our families. But, in those inventories, one is a resentment inventory, and we list all of the resentments that we have.

Scott Weeman [00:37:43]:
And it's a very thorough exercise. You know, there is a procedure for doing it, some columns that we kind of put, you know, what's the source of our, of our resentment? What is the resentment? You know, how does this affect me? And then that 4th column is what is my part in it? And so to be to learn, it's almost, like, a really a thorough transformation of our minds and souls to not be holding on to those resentments, but rather, you know, con perhaps considering that the person or even the institution with whom we hold the resentment toward, is also sick themselves and, you know, treat them as I would a sick person just as I have been and, you know, certainly am still bit of a sick puppy and need need help. And also then recognizing fear as an outline, like, really is a motivator for why I act and behave and hold attitudes for certain ways. You know, if I if I really boil it down to a lot of my other misbehavior or challenging attitudes, most of it is the underlying cause. There's some there's fear there. I fear of being left out. I fear, economic or financial insecurity. I fear relationship challenges, all sorts of different things that, you know, truly yeah.

Scott Weeman [00:39:00]:
I've I've learned a lot of that, which can be applied to anyone. But recognizing resentment and fear and then, the isolation that we might lead to as a result of those things. Rather than turning to God, we turn to all sorts of other behaviors and attitudes.

Pat Millea [00:39:14]:
Yeah. Yeah. I the virtue that comes to mind, I think, through a lot of what you're talking about, Scott, is the the great and maybe even primary virtue of humility in the course of the Christian life that in the course of, you know, that we have a couple episodes earlier on in the podcast where can I and I talk about my former struggles with pornography addiction and the way that we have had to kind of heal, not just from that specifically, but from our own codependent interactions with each other and coming to a place of much better trust and honesty? But so much of it had to do with humility, because there's there's this tendency I know for myself and for a lot of folks with any unhealthy attachment, you know, on on one hand, either denying that there's a problem and not having the humility to really look the problem in the eye. And then step 2, maybe another kind of angle of that is maybe where you were talking about a little bit in your first stint, in kind of a treatment facility where, I see the problem, but I'm just gonna do it myself. I'm gonna get sober or get free or whatever. I don't need your help. I don't need God's help. I see the problem, but I'm gonna fix it myself, you know? And, I literally just sent this quote from CS Lewis from mere Christianity to a friend, earlier, I think yesterday even he and I are in kind of an accountability, you know, relationship like this as well.

Pat Millea [00:40:43]:
But CS Lewis talks about the the the strength that a good man develops by facing temptation firmly and the kind of humility that a person needs for that. He says, the main thing we learned from a serious attempt to practice the Christian virtues is that we fail. If there was any idea that God had set us a sort of exam and that we might get good marks by deserving them, that has to be wiped out. If there was any idea of a sort of bargain, any idea that we could perform our side of the contract and thus put God in our debts so that it was up to him in mere justice to perform his side that has to be wiped out. And I love I love that angle of humility because it's it's the angle that was really difficult for me. And I think for a lot of maybe, you know, kind of upwardly mobile goal oriented, maybe Americans, maybe just human beings, but that mindset, that I literally can't do it myself and getting to that point of of desperation, surrender. People use the phrase rock bottom sometimes. What what was your experience with that virtue of humility and and how did that kind of develop in your process of recovery?

Scott Weeman [00:41:58]:
Yeah. You're you're talking about unmerited grace, and, and it's unmerited. I mean, God moves mountains. He acts he asked us to pick up the shovel and, you know, cooperate with that grace, but we can't take too much credit for it. If we have a vibrant faith life, if we have, you know, found freedom from a, an attachment or an addiction, like, we can't take too much credit for those things. Mhmm. I I believe that, you know, the things that we're describing, pornography, alcoholism, drug addiction, food related addictions is very prevalent in society.

Pat Millea [00:42:31]:
Yeah.

Scott Weeman [00:42:31]:
Whether compulsive overeating or restricted eating, gambling is increasing as with a lot of states, legalizing sports gambling and such.

Pat Millea [00:42:40]:
Mhmm.

Scott Weeman [00:42:41]:
Codependency, shopping addiction, spending, debtting, all these things are all different symptoms of the same spirituality that I believe we all share. And it is a bit of a blessing to have to be able to put a name to it. And, I should also know, and I think some people are challenged by the, you know, if I were to say that my name is Scott, I'm an alcoholic. You know, it's like, why would you you know, I can't identify myself as an addict or an alcoholic because that doesn't you know, that I'm I'm not gonna define myself by the worst thing that I am. Sure. But that's the that's the, opposite you know, the the two sides of the coin thing too. I'm not saying that, you know, know me by my all my greatest faults. Mhmm.

Scott Weeman [00:43:20]:
But when I say my name is Scott, I'm an alcoholic and an addict. I'm saying that God has delivered me from the darkness of alcoholism and addiction. It's only by that that I'm free. And, of course, also can't rest on my laurels and think that I will always be that way. Mhmm. So, yes. Seeing those, you know, the things, the substances or behaviors that we engage in regularly, as the symptoms of the deeper spirituality, which underneath lies fear and resentment and isolation and, and pride and ego. I think that, yeah, you're not gonna get really get getting to the depths of that and the need for humility.

Scott Weeman [00:43:59]:
I initially found humility via humiliation. Mhmm. You know, that's, humiliation is a very effective way to for humility. Of course, we can't just rely on that, as an as a daily course of finding humility. Right. Right. You know, I think that we can certainly humble ourselves and, you know, even learning, you know, how to pray in some ways. And, like, you know, when I was first getting sober learning how to pray, my sponsor would suggest that I, you know, at the end of the night, you know, get on my knees, thank God, pray, you know, pray thank God for keeping me sober for another day, leave my wallet and keys underneath the bed while I was doing so.

Scott Weeman [00:44:37]:
So that way when I wake up, I've gotta get back down on my knees to get those things. And while I'm down there, I might as well just, you know, I should say a few prayers and in a humble position. You know, I think that even the way that we, you know, contort ourselves or, you know, our our physical beings with our spiritual beings and our emotional and cognitive selves, you know, are all intertwined together. Sometimes as we're, you know, in professional we seek professional help. We'll go to one place, you know, for physical needs, another place for our spiritual needs, another place for our emotional and or mental cognitive needs. But those things I think are so intertwined in our soul. And, yeah, I think, you know, some practical things that might be helpful just to help build humility and willingness as well. You know, honesty, open mindedness, and willingness are 3 key elements, to finding long lasting recovery and a deep faith in God.

Scott Weeman [00:45:29]:
And if I'm not willing, at least, you know, praying to God, Lord, give me the willingness to be willing. And, you know, I could take that on for a couple other renditions of Sure. You know, if I don't have the willingness to be willing, asking for even more. But, yeah, it's all all a grace. It's all unmerited gift that we get.

Pat Millea [00:45:45]:
It's, it is it is freak I find that humiliation is often the tool that the Lord uses to bring about humility. And so often, I don't appreciate it. There's so many of my prayers there. Lord, grant me humility, but please not humiliation, which is not that that's not usually the bargain that I get to make. You know?

Scott Weeman [00:46:08]:
Yeah. Yeah. Even in, you know, in our prayer lives. And and maybe it's not, you know, someone else's, you know, a loved one that we have. I think a lot of people are challenged. And I gotta note that addiction is not doesn't just happen in isolation, but is a family spiritual disease. It impacts all of us as we change roles and shift roles within families and develop some of the same attitudes that we've gotta keep this private. We've gotta keep it a secret.

Scott Weeman [00:46:32]:
I you know, we begin to even lose trust and faith in God for him not, you know, responding the way that we would hope to. But, you know, thy will be done is a very good prayer. And if we can take that in our minds to a place of, like, thy will be done and whatever it takes, Lord. And even if it's the worst case scenario, if I can begin to accept what the worst case scenario in my mind might be as a means to find some resolution here, then that often helps open me up, give me a little bit of humility to, accept whatever God's will might be.

Pat Millea [00:47:04]:
One of the challenging things that Kenna has had to work with some of her clients within in therapy, is this idea that you you've kind of hinted at that, addiction doesn't grow in a vacuum. And she has to really be be careful and help people understand her clearly because what she's not saying is, you know, parents of a teenager, it's your fault that your child has developed this addiction. There's there's no blame, but it is acknowledging that addiction takes place in a context and that context might involve some difficult relationships or some predispositions that are genealogical or spiritual or it might involve some particular stressors and crises and even trauma that, make someone feel like they need to to reach out in a certain way. You know, that helping people to really take their context into into their mindset and not just treat the the issue itself. It's not about removing a substance necessarily. It's more about finding a deeper source of healing and wholeness in the midst of all the things that are that are challenging. Mhmm. And, yeah,

Scott Weeman [00:48:18]:
I think that's why, you know, the serenity prayer is such a great prayer for individuals and families impacted by addiction. Very in its fullness, very Christian in nature. The first stanza that we probably know very well or many know, you know, God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, which are basically other people, places, and things. The courage to change the things I can myself and the wisdom to know the difference. And it takes an act of God for me to even change or, yeah, me to change, for God to change me every day. Sure. You know? So to think that I have a magic wand or can say the right thing or do the right thing or provide the right you know, put the word right words together, like, that's not on me. That's just that's another form of pride.

Scott Weeman [00:49:00]:
And, you know, this family spiritual disease of addiction often leads to those things where it can be challenging having a conversation because it leads family members to believe there's the 3 obsessions that they describe in family addiction recovery, which is the 3 c's that that the family member believes that they caused it, that they can cure it, and that it's their responsibility to control it or that they, you know, they're they're obsessed that they caused it, that they can control it, and it's their responsibility to cure it. Mhmm. And sometimes, you know, what can lead, you know, what ultimately can lead to the best results is letting go of the wheel and allowing the natural consequences, to take place and to be realized by the individual. Because if a family member is the one who's picking up the mess every time, then really there are there's very little motivation for the the quote, unquote identified patients to get help. And, you know, a lot of times even families, you know, systems develop so that the, you know, their the family almost finds its identity in curing the identified patient in the family, whereas all are sick and in need of healing. And, you know, it's also true that if a individual, like, gets sober or finds freedom from a variety, you know, less addiction or alcoholism, drug addiction, other addictions, and then is replaced back in the family system that has not found any healing that, that it's, very likely that they would resort back to it. Because the family system is almost set up in a way that everyone else's identity is formed around this person being sick.

Pat Millea [00:50:31]:
Right. Right. Yeah. That kind of the the codependent family dynamic. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, recovery is not just about removing a substance, but it's also about developing a healthier vision of purpose, a healthier sense of self, a true identity.

Pat Millea [00:50:50]:
In the midst of your process of recovery, Scott, what are some of those good things that the Lord has put into your life and not just taken out specific substances? I I'm thinking in particular, because, we have now gotten connected on Instagram, it's it seems like you spent a lot of time on the golf course. So, what are some of the good things that you've been able to really find a great sense of meaning and purpose and and freedom in?

Scott Weeman [00:51:16]:
Yeah. I would say that, you know, probably the greatest joy in my life beyond, having a a good relationship with my wife and kids is to being able to pass along a message of hope to the newcomer who is struggling and, can't find it themselves and to be able to just speak life into them and provide what was once provided to me and continues to be provided to me. And, you know, I had to learn how to do some of the things that I found enjoyment from. You know, a lot of the things that I used to do, recreational activities, going to sporting events, playing golf. You know, I used to often do while I was intoxicated. And so there was a little bit of a relearning and grateful that there were other men in recovery who, were also avid golfers or sports fans that I could, you know, participate in those things together and engage in the fellowship rather than just engage in the the stupidity, the debauchery. You know? And so finding that as opportunities to, yeah, reengage in in the things that really have brought me joy and do bring me joy. Yeah.

Scott Weeman [00:52:19]:
I could go on and on. You know, learning to cook, you know, I've found a great blessing in being able to, you know, serve people, and cook in, small functions for my family or for friends or in larger functions as well and try out different things. Mhmm. Yeah. There's been all sorts of different things that, you know, bringing joy to others and bringing hope to others Mhmm. Is, yeah, a a bright spot in my life.

Pat Millea [00:52:44]:
That's beautiful. I think my last practical question is around that that idea of that that kind of relearning that you're talking about. I I know that there have been many friends of mine who, for various reasons, some addiction related, some just personal preference have chosen to not drink ever again. And a lot of them have really lamented the difficulty of that, that that oftentimes there's this social expectation that that if you're not drinking, you must think you're better than me. You must not be a fun person. And even so many of our cultural dynamics are built around drinking in particular, but just substance use in general. You know? Yeah. Why wouldn't you go to a tailgate and have a beer? Why wouldn't you have a drink with your buddies playing cards? Whatever the case may be.

Pat Millea [00:53:30]:
What what's your experience been of trying to to learn how to function in a culture that at times seems opposed to, what's a healthy lifestyle for you?

Scott Weeman [00:53:40]:
Yeah. And good question. I would say even growing up in Northeast Wisconsin where, you know, drinking and alcohol is very prevalent and very part of the culture. You know, speaking about alcoholism in in Northeast Wisconsin is like talking to a fish about water. There are other areas of the country where that's true as well. I'd say, you know, I won't name any, but, yeah, there's just like you know, I found even you know, I got sober in October when I went back 2 months into my sobriety for Christmas, and, you know, our family functions were oftentimes fueled by alcohol and, people having a good time and or what they think was a good time. And, you know, there's, I've learned that I can be silly and I can, I can let loose without that needed? I've also learned that people who might ask the question, well, why aren't you drinking? They're not really asking as a way, like first of all, people don't pay that much attention, and we might think that we are. You know, a lot of times we in various settings, we think that everyone's focus is on us.

Scott Weeman [00:54:38]:
But most of us are self centered enough to, you know, like, we're focusing on ourselves and not on other people as much as we think. And, you know, I think even just having some practical responses can be helpful, setting some of our own boundaries. You know, when I go somewhere where I know there's gonna be a lot of alcohol and if I'm traveling, if I'm with my wife or something, you know, I'm kinda learn to give and she's learned, you know, like, hey, I've got about 20 minutes left and then it's about time to go. Not like being abrupt about it, but giving a little bit of a heads up. You know, driving myself if, you know, so that that is an option, you know, if that's feasible. And, you know, having a response. I've worked in the you know, when I got sober, I was working in the, restaurant business as serving tables and, which is a job that I loved. I'd yeah.

Scott Weeman [00:55:25]:
And, and so the part of that culture is oftentimes, you know, going out afterwards and, you know, people enjoying themselves. I'm not here to, you know, it's it's not my role or job to identify anyone else as having a problem. But having, you know, like, oftentimes when people would ask, you know, why don't you drink? And, you know, I would usually say something like, well, I've I've exceeded my lifetime quota or or I'm allergic. I I've developed an allergy to it, which is true. I do have an allergy to it. Whereas, if I take one drink, it I have an abnormal reaction where, I can't and I'm never fulfilled and enough, you know, there's never enough. So, yeah, I found having a few, go to remarks can be helpful as well.

Pat Millea [00:56:10]:
That's good. That's good. That's really good practical advice, I think, for for folks trying to live like that in the world. That's beautiful.

Scott Weeman [00:56:15]:
Mhmm.

Pat Millea [00:56:16]:
Well, you know, as we turn the corner to kind of send people on their way to live this out in a little more healthy way, what's what's one challenge by choice that you might be able to offer folks, Scott, to wherever they are in their relationship with substances, lust, gambling, any kind of unhealthy attachment. What what's something that everybody can employ, to be attentive to this?

Scott Weeman [00:56:38]:
Yeah. I would I would suggest considering, you know, what is that one substance or behavior? And, you know, we've mentioned several of them before. It might be substance like alcohol, drugs, food, flour, and sugar, particularly, or, you know, behaviors such as, you know, restricted eating or pornography or lust related activities, gambling, codependency, the need to control others, cluttering, you know, it's kind of, I could go on and on. But consider what is that thing? What is that primary thing that you resort to in order to instead of turning to God, but to perhaps escape reality or to deal with a the highs and lows of life? And take some time and be very honest with yourself about this. You know, I think that self honesty, you know, we've gotta be honest with ourselves and our and God. And as I've heard several times in recovery rooms, we're only as sick as our secrets. I think that's very true in the spiritual life as well. I certainly I'm certain it is.

Scott Weeman [00:57:38]:
So once you've come to think, discern of what that is, attempt to refrain from that behavior or substance for 3 weeks, 21 days, and seek a spiritual solution in its place. Or if you need to set a limit and if you can't keep to the limits that you've set for yourself, then perhaps more needs to be explored. Perhaps, you know, some more some some serious surrender to recovery or other resources or fellowships or, you know, certainly relationship with God around this. He'll show you the way. But, I would challenge I know it's not gonna be easy. We're not we are outside of the time of Lent where we think that that's the time when we do this. And Sure. We might even have, you know, employ some half measures during that period of the liturgical calendar as well.

Scott Weeman [00:58:24]:
But, yeah, so ask God what that might be if you can't have a hard time finding it yourself and, try to refrain for at least 3 weeks.

Pat Millea [00:58:32]:
That's beautiful. That's great. Very practical for all of us, and I am I am in a in a very good way feeling convicted about a couple things that I, probably need to be honest about in my own daily habits as well. So thank you for that, Scott. Obviously, folks can keep up with your work at catholicandrecovery.com. We'll put links in the show notes to your book, the 12 steps and the sacraments. Anything else that people should know about that's coming up for you in the near future at all?

Scott Weeman [00:58:59]:
Yeah. We have a variety of retreats available throughout the country and throughout the year where, you know, a great way to, immerse yourself into recovery. If you've got experience in 12 step recovery and in the church and wanna blend those 2, paralleling programs or I mean, it's hard to reduce it to a program. I hate that word. But Sure. Check us out. You know, attend a retreat. Connect with virtual Catholic and recovery meetings, which are happening every day, some general recovery meetings for those finding freedom from a variety of addictions, compulsions, and unhealthy attachments, some specific to different addiction types, some dealing with the family's spiritual disease of addiction, Others providing a place for prayer and meditation, where we can gather together under the, you know, the central notion of 12 step recovery and, sacramental life of the church to find freedom.

Scott Weeman [00:59:48]:
So, catholicinrecovery.com is where you can find more information about all that stuff and more. Beautiful.

Pat Millea [00:59:54]:
It's a great, great starting point for folks, entering in deeper. That's great. Well, Scott, why don't we, pray with our good listeners here, and then we can send everyone on their way to live a freer and healthier life.

Scott Weeman [01:00:05]:
Amen.

Pat Millea [01:00:06]:
Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen. Lord Jesus, God of hope and freedom, we thank you for the gift of life and, grace that you have given us and offer each of us every day. We thank you as well for the call to live in greater communion with you and in greater communion with our fellow, sons and daughters of yours in this world. Lord, we acknowledge and we offer to you all the parts of our hearts that are, distant from you, the parts of our hearts that, rely on things besides you. And we ask for your healing, for your grace to make those known to us, to, inspire a spirit of courage and humility in the midst of any fear and shame that we're feeling and to bring those corners of our heart to you, Lord, that you can flood them with your mercy, that you can make them whole, and that we can be renewed, by your love alone. Lord, I pray in particular for all those who are struggling with any any addictions, any compulsions, any unhealthy attachments for their loved ones, for their family members, and for all of us sinners that we can be free from attachments to this world and attached only to you in your perfect love. We ask all this, Jesus, in your name.

Pat Millea [01:01:35]:
Amen.

Scott Weeman [01:01:36]:
Amen.

Pat Millea [01:01:37]:
Name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit. Amen. Well, Scott Weeman, it's been a great blessing to have you with us. Thank you so much for taking the time to share your story, to share your heart with our listeners, and, we'll look forward to keeping in touch down the road.

Scott Weeman [01:01:51]:
Yeah. It's a pleasure and a privilege. Privilege. Thank you.

Pat Millea [01:01:54]:
Thank you. And friends, we will see you on the next episode of This Whole Life. In the meantime, you can follow us along, as always, on Instagram and Facebook at this wholelifepodcast.com. You can rate and review us and tell us all how wonderful this conversation with Scott was on your listener of choice, and you can visit us online at thiswholelifepodcast.com. God bless your friends. Go out there, be free, and we will see you next time. This Whole Life is a production of the Martin Center For Integration. Visit us online at thiswholelifepodcast.com.

Pat Millea [01:02:46]:
Yeah. I think Waffle House tastes better after 10 o'clock at night. I'm pretty sure it is. It's one of those things where it feels a little odd being there during daylight, you know? Yep. Taco Bell has a bit of that energy too.

Scott Weeman [01:02:58]:
Same. Yep.