Ep58 What's Your Story? w/ Fr. Angelus Montgomery, CFR

“Return home and recount what God has done for you.”
~ Luke 8:39

Where has the Lord been most clearly present in the story of your life?
Is my story really worth telling?
What good would it do to share my story with someone else?
 
In this heartfelt and enriching episode of "This Whole Life," hosts Kenna and Pat Millea engage in a profound conversation with Fr. Angelus Montgomery, the vocations director for the Franciscan Friars of the Renewal. In the framework of "telling your story," they delve into themes of personal brokenness, healing, and the unique callings that reveal aspects of Jesus. Fr. Angelus shares his "second conversion" and the transformation it sparked, and he highlights the role of vulnerability, storytelling, and the Christian call to love others as Jesus did. Together, they explore how great storytelling in literature mirrors The Story, the beauty of being chosen by God, and the significance of stepping back to see life's bigger picture. Join them for a heartening dialogue - your story is worth it.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery, CFR, a Nebraska native, is a priest with the Franciscan Friars of the Renewal, currently serving as the community’s Vocation Director at Joseph Friary in Harlem, New York. Along with his duties in helping young men in their discernment, he is involved with the Community’s outreach to the poor and vulnerable, and also is co-host of the Poco a Poco Podcast, produced by the CFR’s. Fr. Angelus’s heart is filled with gratitude to God for the gift of being a Franciscan priest and spiritual Father.

Episode 58 Show Notes

Chapters:
0:00: Introduction and Highs & Hards
11:33: Getting into story telling & story work
22:11: Walking with others & Father's second conversion
34:51: Finding healing through telling my story
41:46: The power of saying it out loud
57:19: Challenge By Choice

Questions for Reflection & Discussion:

1. What is one specific thing that stuck with you from this conversation?
2. When have you shared your story with someone else? How did they receive it?
3. How has telling your story helped you receive healing and the love of God?
4. What is difficult about telling your story? What is difficult about receiving the story of someone else?
5. What is your reaction to the statement that we don't have to "fix" poverty, homelessness, etc.; we just have the love the person in front of us?

Thank you for listening! Visit us online at thiswholelifepodcast.com, and send us an email with your thoughts, questions, or ideas.

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Interested in more faith-filled mental health resources? Check out the Martin Center for Integration

Music: "You're Not Alone" by Marie Miller. Used with permission.

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction and Highs & Hards
• 11:33 Getting into story telling & story work
• 22:11 Walking with others & Father's second conversion
• 34:51 Finding healing through telling my story
• 41:46 The power of saying it out loud
• 57:19 Challenge By Choice

Transcript

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:00:00]:
You start to see, like, glimmers through the darkness, through the struggle, through the pain of, like, who they are in the Lord. You're like, oh my gosh. Like, there's light coming through now, and you start to see Jesus, and I think that's the gift of, like, this this relationship we have as Christians.

Kenna Millea [00:00:23]:
Welcome to This Whole Life, a podcast for all of us seeking sanity and sanctity, and a place to find joy and meaning through the integration of faith and mental health. I'm Kenna Millea, a licensed marriage and family therapist, and I'm happy to bring you this podcast along with my husband, Pat Millea, a Catholic speaker, musician, and leader. We invite you to our kitchen table. Okay. Not literally. But you're definitely invited into the conversations that we seem to keep having once the kids have scattered off to play and we're left doing the dishes. We're excited to share this podcast for educational purposes. It's not intended as therapy or as a substitute for mental health care.

Kenna Millea [00:01:03]:
So let's get talking about This Whole Life.

Pat Millea [00:01:16]:
Hello, friends. Welcome back to This Whole Life. It is a glorious day in the state of Minnesota.

Kenna Millea [00:01:23]:
Beautiful.

Pat Millea [00:01:23]:
If you ever have doubts that you would want to live here, I would say come on this day and you will know the glory of Minnesota. It's beautiful here for what? Prime. At least 3 weeks out of the year?

Kenna Millea [00:01:35]:
You stop that. It's in the eye of the beholder.

Pat Millea [00:01:39]:
But we are gently moving out of summer, which is not it's not oppressive, like, you know, Louisiana or Texas or something. It's not terrible heat. But now we're just coming into the absolute sweet spot of, like it's, like, 58 in the morning. So a little brisk, little nip in the air, and then, like, 79 in the afternoon. Just just glory. That's the greatest. Yep. Sorry.

Pat Millea [00:02:01]:
Maybe I'm talking about you about it. I get really excited about it. It's about to be negative 30, so I get these few days. Okay? My love, how are you?

Kenna Millea [00:02:07]:
I'm good. I'm good. And I'm excited because today we have, Father Angelus, here with us to talk about, an approach to healing, what he uses with, the men as in his role as the vocations director for the CFR. So thank you, Father.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:02:22]:
Gosh. It's so great to be here. Thank you.

Pat Millea [00:02:23]:
You're very welcome.

Kenna Millea [00:02:24]:
This has been a dream in the hopper for a long time. So thanks to NET Ministries for making this happen. Yeah. It's such a gift. In person, you are our first on video guest.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:02:34]:
Hey, everybody.

Pat Millea [00:02:36]:
And if you're listening on the podcast, you don't get the benefit of that at all.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:02:39]:
Our face looks really good.

Pat Millea [00:02:40]:
Our face is really good.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:02:42]:
My graying beard. You see that?

Pat Millea [00:02:43]:
The grays coming in. Kinda is surrounded by gray beards right now. Yes.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:02:48]:
That's right.

Kenna Millea [00:02:49]:
Gentlemen, you look fabulous. You look fabulous.

Pat Millea [00:02:52]:
Oh, man. Well, this is always a funny situation, Father, because I get to introduce you to your face, but I'm actually talking to people that are not here. Exactly. So you may or may not know Father Angelus Montgomery is a CFR. He's from Nebraska originally. He's a priest with the Franciscan Friars of the Renewal and he currently serves as the community's vocation director at Saint Joseph Friarly Friarly, not Friarly Friary in Harlem, New York. We were just in New York City this summer.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:03:19]:
It's a great spot.

Pat Millea [00:03:20]:
Great spot.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:03:20]:
Next time you're there.

Pat Millea [00:03:21]:
Absolutely. Oh, it's happening. Show us your favorite place to eat or something. So along with his duties in helping young men with their discernment with the CFRs, he's also involved with the community's outreach to the poor and vulnerable. You likely have encountered him as one of the cohosts of the Poco a Poco podcast.

Kenna Millea [00:03:38]:
Such a good podcast.

Pat Millea [00:03:39]:
Such a good podcast.

Kenna Millea [00:03:40]:
I mean, don't don't hang up here, but

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:03:42]:
Yeah. We want you here. We want you here

Kenna Millea [00:03:44]:
For sure.

Pat Millea [00:03:44]:
After this episode, definitely check out Poco a Poco. Yeah. It's the greatest. So, Father, thanks so much for being here.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:03:50]:
Such a gift.

Pat Millea [00:03:51]:
You're the best.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:03:51]:
Easy. Easy.

Pat Millea [00:03:52]:
We love to start off our episodes just checking in with a little high and the hard lately. Yeah. Do you mind starting us off as our welcome guest?

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:03:59]:
Absolutely. I'm I'm grateful for that. A little self reflection. As you said, I actually get to come to, Minnesota numerous times a year to my involvement in as a chaplain for NET ministries, which is such a gift. And, so it I would say, like, currently, this very moment, the the high and the hard kinda go together. The high meaning, is just the gift of, it's easy to be a priest around NET missionaries. Mhmm. And so the gift of being, present with them, and they're in their last week of training this week.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:04:27]:
And so just the gift of, loving them, being with them, and it's totally life giving. And it's great as a chaplain too. There's no major responsibilities other than loving the missionaries. Yeah. So the gift of just being with them. You know? So I I definitely think that would be my high. And, also, the hard, I think, comes along with, I I think, you recognize the as a priest as well, you kinda come up against the brokenness of of other people. Recognize the as a priest as well, you kinda come up against the brokenness of of others.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:04:53]:
Right? So, my hard, my Fatherly heart often, in receiving the stories of others and the hurt of others, you just kinda recognize and, oftentimes feel a bit powerless. So you guys have that experience maybe, obviously, in those you serve and even your kids, you're like, you want so much for people. Yeah. But you kinda run up against how powerless we really are. Yeah. And so I feel that often. And, again, I think, even the gospel today, it's a sermon on the mount. And and the Lord's like, yeah.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:05:17]:
Being poor is where I want you. You're like, oh, but it feels so awful sometimes. Right. Yeah. So I think that's hard. I think that's hard to to to to love once so much to for the Lord to do beautiful things in someone's heart and story, but also come up against our limitations. Mhmm. Right? So I I wonder if that's the that's the tension of a Christian.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:05:34]:
Right? So this moment, this day, the gift of being with the NET missionaries, I just feel feel that.

Pat Millea [00:05:39]:
Yeah. That's beautiful. Well, especially for someone who's so overtly committed to the vow of poverty to know that even it's still a struggle, right, that that poverty is always difficult in our humanness. Yeah.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:05:50]:
That's true. Yeah.

Pat Millea [00:05:51]:
That's beautiful. Thank you for sharing. My love?

Kenna Millea [00:05:53]:
Yeah. So my high and hard are similar to your Father, 2 sides of the same coin, and that is, just independence in our children. It's the start of a new school year and, it's a time when Pat and I traditionally are very, like, thoughtful and take a step back and look at, systems and processes in our family life and, kind of renew our sense of, like, where are these kids at? What are their capabilities? And so the the high is in writing new chore charts and writing up afternoon routines and just seeing, like, the growth, and that we can expect more from them than we could 365 days ago. But, also, with that, the hard is accepting their independence and accepting their pushback and and their influence, on the way they want things to work. In particular, right now, our twin 5 year old daughters are in kindergarten, and God bless them. They they must be doing such a good job listening at school because they do not listen at home. Like like, they come home

Pat Millea [00:06:56]:
They use it all up.

Kenna Millea [00:06:57]:
Yeah. And they're like, I am done with that game, mother. Like like, down to, like, I don't wanna wear those play shorts and, like, I don't wanna sit in that chair for dinner and, like, I don't want that lunchbox. Like, just everything feels like a struggle and a fight and a power struggle. And so, trying to, yeah, stay rooted and grounded and and kind of assess in these moments of, like, how much can I give? Right? How much can I still cultivate obedience in them? And how much can I be flexible with them? And it's just such a spectrum, and I don't do well often with it. So high and hard.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:07:35]:
High and hard.

Pat Millea [00:07:35]:
Is a tricky beast, man.

Kenna Millea [00:07:37]:
It is. And I, like, love our our our twin daughters in particular are just, like, so there's, like, strength in numbers, I guess. I don't know if Father you tell us. You're triplets. Get it. So, like, like, there's strength in numbers, and so they just, like, think that they are so much more capable than any of our other kids have. And it's it's it's across right now for me.

Pat Millea [00:07:53]:
And, literally, yesterday, I was just thinking about with excite as excited as I am for our oldest to start driving, like, permit wise in a couple years, Yesterday was the first time that I had to think through, like, oh, man. She will be fighting Minneapolis traffic on the way to school. Like and, like, that anxiety of, like, I trust her, but, like, it's a road full of who knows what. You know what I mean? And even this morning, one of our older kids was cooking his own eggs to make breakfast this morning. That's great. Appropriate independence. And one of the 5 year old twins was like, I wanna make my own eggs.

Kenna Millea [00:08:27]:
And I was like, maybe on the weekend when mommy can supervise you.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:08:31]:
I know.

Pat Millea [00:08:32]:
Well, some days you can cook your own breakfast, but today is not that day.

Kenna Millea [00:08:35]:
Yes.

Pat Millea [00:08:37]:
So how can we appropriately move into independence, you know? Oh my gosh.

Kenna Millea [00:08:41]:
And you, babe. High and hard?

Pat Millea [00:08:43]:
Thank you. My, I'll start with the hard, I think. We are in the midst of I feel like I say this all the time, and it's gonna come off as the most cliche kind of like, oh, whoa is me type comment because everyone is busy, and I understand that. That is like the number one description of someone's life. Hey. How are you doing? Oh, I'm really busy these days. Right? And yet there is a version of busyness that you and I cannot earn them instead of right now with kids going back to school. And for whatever reason, just this season of the year has a lot of different speaking opportunities for us. Mhmm.

Pat Millea [00:09:19]:
Some local and some very not local. And it's all very exciting. It's all very good, but it requires a lot of planning and preparation. And the kind of preparation that takes more time than just, planning a meeting or or giving a talk that we've done a million times before or something like that. So, just the difficulty of having to constantly, it feels like every 2 days, reassess what are our values and how can we best live out those values this week. Like given these things on the schedule, some might have to go, but we need to let the less important ones go and not the more important ones, you know. So just a lot of constant kind of like re reenvisioning what our life is gonna look like and making sure that we can stick true to what we are claiming to be during this time. So it's difficult.

Pat Millea [00:10:05]:
Good, but difficult. My high lately has been, there's there's a content and then there's a process to it. The content is we got a new car, and it works very well.

Kenna Millea [00:10:15]:
New to us.

Pat Millea [00:10:16]:
New to us. Yeah. Exactly.

Pat Millea [00:10:17]:
Yeah. I'm sorry. I'm not the kind of guy who will ever own a new car. So if you think I got a 2024, like, Tesla or something, you are Not happening for, yeah, disappointment. No. We got a a new ish used car, which is great. But the process is that it was just a big that was one of the burdens in this busy season that was weighing on me because I had forgotten how much of a hassle it is to trade in a car and buy a new one. You have to, like, you gotta figure out how much your car is worth.

Pat Millea [00:10:42]:
You gotta take go get bids and values from places, and you gotta go look for the car you want. Blah blah blah.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:10:47]:
Gotta get it inspected. You gotta do this.

Pat Millea [00:10:48]:
Seriously. Right. Oh my gosh. It's just it it's it's genuine first world problems, but it does feel good to just have that monkey off my back, have a reliable car that can get us where we need to be, that's within our price range and budget, and it's all good. So glad to be on the other side of that.

Kenna Millea [00:11:04]:
Yes. Thank you. Thank you. And it also feels like a go kart. So pardon my

Pat Millea [00:11:08]:
It does.

Kenna Millea [00:11:08]:
Speeding ticket because great

Pat Millea [00:11:10]:
is now we have Father, you saw it parked outside. We have a 12 passenger van

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:11:13]:
Sweet.

Pat Millea [00:11:14]:
For our whole family to get anywhere, and then we have a Toyota Corolla.

Kenna Millea [00:11:20]:
So it really does feel like we go 80 without even trying.

Pat Millea [00:11:24]:
It's like an elephant and a baby elephant. Yeah.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:11:26]:
Which one are we taking today? Which one are we taking?

Pat Millea [00:11:30]:
That's great. Oh my gosh. Yep. Well, we are really excited, Father, for you to be with us. It's gonna be a great, time, great conversation. I know that when we talked to you about what kinds of things you might wanna bring into this conversation, you started explaining your current passion and drive right now around the idea of stories and healing. So maybe can you give us a little background first of all about what got you down that road of of what makes stories fascinating? What drew you into this realm in the first place?

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:11:59]:
Yeah. You know, and it's it's interesting though because sometimes the speaking of obedience, I, you know, I didn't join the community to be the vocation director, you know, and so the gift of the Franciscan life and the gift of our contemplative life and our brotherhood, like, all the different values, if you will, like, drawing me to the life and

Kenna Millea [00:12:16]:
Mhmm.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:12:16]:
When I was ordained, there was or when I was a deacon, there was this conversation with the superior, and there was a sense that, like, to start dreaming up and start, like, responding to grace. I'm like, hey. What's God doing? And you're like and I I'm struck that our superior has that sense. Right? Like, let's before I give you an assignment, let's, like, talk about what God is doing in your life. Yeah. Which is a beautiful response rather than, like, trying to fill a need all the time. Now there's needs we have to fill. That's for sure.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:12:41]:
But the the starting place of the of it is the man's heart. And so I had noticed in in my early religious life the gift in the, privilege of, like, walking with young men. You know? And, and so as that starts to open up, you're just like, oh, wow. This could actually be an assignment. And this could actually be a space that it would open up before the Lord in obedience to to be able to to walk with young men. So that was 2018, and I've been in the vocation office ever since. Wow. And so walking with young men, receiving their stories.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:13:08]:
And, you know, vocation work, It's not just about picking, like, something that I wanna do, but it's actually about, like, let's take a step back and and let's move away from, like, well, this is what I'm good at Father. This these are my gifts. But, like, to to really, like, read someone's heart, if you're not not in a mystical sense necessarily, but to to read their story, like, what is God doing in your life? Mhmm. And and as you guys know, it's not just what he's been doing in this last year, but, like, you start to look at how he's been working and living and moving in people's lives. And so it's fun to know that when you sit with someone who receives their heart, receive their story, that God starts to reveal himself, and God starts to make sense of their heart, their life, their desires, their capacities. And this is also where the challenge comes in is and where you guys do a lot of your work that are broken is often, can be an obstacle to saying yes to God. Mhmm. Yeah.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:13:57]:
You know? And so and we feel that in our own lives. And so that's why it's like the vocation work is not finding where you're supposed to be a friar, where you who you're supposed to marry. It's actually I feel like it's it's, uncovering your yes. They can often be buried in brokenness, in hurt, in pain. And so when you start to actually say, okay. Let's not worry about the choice you need to make for your for your career or your vocation, but let's start to to see what your heart what's happening in your heart and where your yes is that could have been injured or distracted along the way. So it's just been awesome. The gift I often say to guys, like, you think you come on and come and see to to discern our community and you get to know us and you do.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:14:36]:
But you often leave with a different sense of, like, oh, wow. These guys aren't recruiting me. They're trying to help me discover what God made me for. Yeah. Yeah. And I I it's beautiful. And I I say this. I'm quoted a lot that we tell the guys when they come and see.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:14:48]:
It's like, the good news is that we don't need you. You know? And the and the good news is that you don't need us to be holy as well. Yeah. So there's freedom on both sides. Yeah. Then we're after what God is after rather than, like, oh, we have to fill spots here, and we have to do this. And so it's just awesome. And I'm humbled, and, my my twin and my triplet brother, Father Innoncent, we live in the same house for he's the postulant director.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:15:09]:
I'm the vocation director, which means we're forming young men together

Pat Millea [00:15:12]:
Yeah.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:15:13]:
Which is a bit of

Kenna Millea [00:15:14]:
Incredible.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:15:14]:
Which is a bit of a, like, crazy the fact that we get you guys together. But just like we both kind of have discovered this this gift of our in this very particular place to love guys in these places. Sometimes we the the gift is is to love them into their vocation. Mhmm. And it's loving them in these spaces that might have obstacles to a deeper sense of who they are. So, anyway, there's a little bit of demand.

Pat Millea [00:15:35]:
That's beautiful. Yeah.

Pat Millea [00:15:36]:
I think we literally told the NET missionaries that last week that the Lord doesn't need you. Yeah. Which I mean, that that way you bring up with the with the men in your vocations work is also just a reflection of God's stance with us. God doesn't need any of us Yeah. Which makes it all the more beautiful that he chose us, that he he made us intentionally. He chose each of us intentionally, and he's really given us that that story. You know? Whatever you

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:15:59]:
So take the burden off. It's not it's not your responsibility, but to to be with Him. You know? Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Kenna Millea [00:16:05]:
So I'm I guess I'm hearing in that, Father, this emphasis on, like, taking a step back, being able to see the bigger picture, being able to maybe identify threads or themes

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:16:20]:
Mhmm.

Kenna Millea [00:16:22]:
Versus maybe being hyper focused on, like, the next step Yeah. Or the outcome or the end.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:16:28]:
Love it.

Kenna Millea [00:16:28]:
Like, seeing life as this, again, so cliche. Like, life is a journey, not a destination. But but, really, I I hear you, relieving the men in your role, but but for our listeners, like, relieving us of that pressure. I kinda think of it as, you know, something that I just I love about the Poco Poco Podcast and the way I feel like I've been directed and and bothered by you all, is you are so consistent about, it's it's not about being a saint, as in that's, like, the prize that we get. But it's about in this life being in relationship with the Lord. And and so that feels like maybe something that is a gift of of telling story. And so I'm curious, like, how do you you know, I imagine many of these folks coming to don't know even where to begin.

Kenna Millea [00:17:17]:
Yeah. So how do you welcome them into this idea? It's pretty foreign, I think, to the world around us and to the culture around us. Have we begin to do such a thing.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:17:26]:
Yeah. And it's beautiful. Just recently, we were on we had 8 new guys join. So just really blessed by that in the last couple weeks. And, we already treat with them, and you guys probably get this sometimes in in in what we do and and who we work with. But when you start to talk about your story and you start to talk about brokenness, you start to talk about, the the reality of the the redemption that the Lord wants to find and meet us in our stories. There's generally a couple responses. One is, like, I'm ready.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:17:50]:
Okay. Let's do this. I want the Lord. There's also resistance, and it's interesting we we experience resistance because sometimes we're just like, Father, I'm tired of it.

Pat Millea [00:17:59]:
Mhmm.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:17:59]:
I'm tired of, like, oh, just to keep going into stories, to keep going into my hurt, and can get just, like, daunting. You know? And so to experience that in some of the guys was really beautiful. But then there was this recognition, and and my brother and I were talking about it together that if you start with a brokenness, it can be intimidating. But to remember that and this is something that we throw around the Catholic world a lot. But if we're made in the image and likeness of God, our vocation and our story reveals Jesus, a unique part. Like, so where your image and likeness is different than mine and Yeah. And so the the reality is what our story is is to uncover that and give that as a gift to the world. Mhmm.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:18:35]:
And we can say that's vocation. How did the Lord make me, and how did do I uniquely, propose to the world a different part of Jesus? And so okay. That's my vocation. When I say yes to God, that's what this is gonna be, whether it's in marriage, religious life, priesthood. That's that's beautiful, and the work that I do kinda is a continual revelation of that. But like we said it earlier, it's like, but my brokenness and my hurt and the reality of what I face in my story can cover that over. And so maybe the light's shining through a little bit, but but it's difficult. And so it's beautiful to start in this, like, your vocation is is is this image and likeness and this invitation that God has to reveal his his goodness to the world.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:19:13]:
And then then you can take, like, okay. Let's try to see where that's been injured or where that's been confused or where that's been disordered, and you can start to open it up from there. I think that takes pressure off. You're like, oh oh, so it's not necessarily just all about my brokenness, but it's actually about what's been there to reveal the goodness of God.

Pat Millea [00:19:29]:
Yeah. We were just talking maybe, like, a week or 2 ago. Some of our older kids who were starting to get into just, like, enjoying movies, and they're reading more significant, like, good literature. You know? And, I was telling them about one of the things that I love about great literature, great movies is they all, to me, in my experience, a movie or a book, any kind of story will be great to the extent that it mirrors The Story. Capital t, capital s. Right? And and the ultimate story, the story of salvation is exactly what you're talking about. Like, you don't start with the crucifixion. There is any any good story, no matter what, even a secular story, there is a a a creation moment.

Pat Millea [00:20:09]:
There's an, you know, an introduction. There's a presentation of something that is good. And then there's always a descent or a loss or a destruction or a crisis. Right? But then it would any a terrible story ends that way. Then there's always restoration, resurrection if you want. Right? That kind of a move and just helping our kids explain helping them understand why I like some of these things because they were bringing up, our daughter was bringing up, like, I don't know, like, Les Mis and and some stories like that. Like, they're so hard to hear. They're so difficult.

Pat Millea [00:20:43]:
And and she was really identifying that brokenness that you're talking about, Father. And I was I was helping to her to explain that. I I was saying, like, you don't have to love Les Miserables if you don't want to. That's fine. I do. You don't have to. That's fine. But what I love about it is that there's even truth in that brokenness.

Pat Millea [00:20:59]:
Like, as hard as it is to see and to come up against when art presented in a beautiful way, it shows me something about my life that Yeah. That the difficulty of the brokenness tells me that I wasn't made for that brokenness and that there's a purpose to it if I can invite the Lord into that space. You know? That that kind of holding our story up against God's story is just a really beautiful move, I think, for all of us to make.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:21:23]:
There's even something that we tell the guys too, which I think you guys will love. That reality that the the mission the identity and mission that the Lord has given me is gonna be exactly what the evil one attacks. Mhmm. And so our brokenness is often around our mission or what how God wants to reveal himself. It's, like, unique. You know, it's not random, like, attacks from evil and a random attack. So, like and so, yeah, it's just interesting. So when you see our brokenness, that could and you start to heal and grow and you start to maybe, like, turn that stone over.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:21:52]:
And I love you how you guys use the word glory a lot. That's the glory. Mhmm. So it doesn't I I mean, obviously, when we face those things, it's difficult, but there there's a taste of, like, oh, wow. This could be of like, something that the Lord is trying to heal and restore so then I can reveal something. To know that it's all kind of together, which is kinda powerful.

Kenna Millea [00:22:09]:
Yeah. Yeah. Well so I'm curious, like, how did how did this way of walking with men, walking with those information, like, how did that, yeah, come into your life? I'm I'm I'm curious. Like, how did you get introduced to this? I've not really heard this, honestly, in, like, Catholic So fears before. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:22:29]:
Yeah. I I have to say and this you guys will appreciate this too just because we're all I mean, I I've been on my own journey. Yeah. You know, so my own experience of being loved and cared for, my own experience of spiritual rectors, spiritual fathers, spiritual mothers, formators who see me in this way. And and you guys recognize this, the the gift of our own ability to be loved and be present to others is, like, to to help someone in their own work. It's better if you're doing your own work.

Pat Millea [00:22:53]:
Right.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:22:53]:
Yes. You know? And so because again, then we get to share, like, oh, yeah. This is what's going on in me, and this is how I so, like, I think and, I'm happy to admit this publicly because I probably met talked about this on the podcast before, but, like, I've been a Friar since 2009, so it's been a while. Mhmm. But I think it was COVID 2020. So, yeah, coming up on the 5th year where I really, I think, had a second conversion. And my own experience of healing, my own experience of recognizing my you know, like, so and I've said this publicly too because it's like my mom will listen to everything. So, hey, mom.

Pat Millea [00:23:23]:
My dad is right there with her, by the way. Yeah.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:23:26]:
But, like, the reality is, like, we had a beautiful family. My parents were wonderful, but we were the family that, it's like, okay. We're gonna like, I I was disappointed if I got an a minus. Yeah. Mhmm. So the the level of expectation, the level of performance, and we were, like, all my my siblings were All-American sports players.

Kenna Millea [00:23:48]:
Oh my land.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:23:49]:
Start to, like so you you feel this. And, again, yeah. You look back with a lot of mercy, but I I was I think I was formed in this place that I have to earn love and I have to perform and I have to find my place. So imagine coming into the CFRs. Mhmm. You know, not with major, struggles, you know, no major addictions, no major, like okay. But imagine just coming in in another space of just saying, okay. I I I feel like there was a bit of an orphan spirit when you have this experience of, like, okay.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:24:16]:
Where do I fit, and how do I do this? And so trying to be good at everything and trying to excel. And then when you're naturally gifted, then the reality of, like, okay. I'm just gonna rely on these gifts to find my place.

Pat Millea [00:24:24]:
Right.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:24:25]:
Yes. So it wasn't till really 2020 where I found and I had these beautiful retreat, and I start to experience these things and then had again spiritual fathers and spiritual mothers loving me and see me in these places that I started to recognize that, like, I wanted to open up my story to the Lord. Yeah. And I wanted to invite him, into that. Yeah. You know? And and also, one of the things that I that I love to do and it surprises a lot of people, but, like, the gift of, Jesus saying you love your neighbor as yourself. So as yourself means that I have a new compassion on my story. Yeah.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:25:01]:
I have a new compassion on the little part of me that that needed something or that struggle with something or who we're trying to form. And so I have, like, I like I like to say, like, the fragments have, a highway now, like an opening to me as I am in the present day. Mhmm. We just have a lot of mercy and a lot of compassion on those parts of me. And so I feel like that has, like, I'm I I feel like people look at me like, Father, that that sounds awesome, but I've never heard of that before. Now there's plenty of other people that talk about it, but, those some of those things started to come into place for me, and I was just like, woah. Like, I felt stuff lifting off of me. Yeah.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:25:35]:
You know?

Kenna Millea [00:25:36]:
Well and it so 2 things strike me as you're sharing, Father, which thank you for entrusting

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:25:40]:
Sure. Sure.

Kenna Millea [00:25:41]:
That to us. One is you had to make some kind of bold move to even let your story be known. Even just even just a smidge. Right? Like, and so I'm I'm curious, you know, as as I'm listening to you and thinking about, like, I'm fully aware that there is, you know, more deeper work, more substantial work to go on in my own life and with my own story. How does one, you know, even begin to do such a thing to approach it? So I'm curious what you might share even practically about that for folks. Yeah. And then I'll think of the second thing I was gonna say later.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:26:21]:
So maybe every time I come to Minnesota, we'll just do this again. Yeah. Just keep it because this is awesome. Like, we could do this all day, which is great. You know? One of the things that's, I think it was a a a group of, Catholics who, have kinda, like, story groups and they, like, hey, let's share our stories together. They have this great, proposal that when trauma is the the significant part of trauma traumatic things, big T, small T things in our life is that what we experience, we experience alone. So the the the often the gift of healing is where we can trans, let trauma become redemptive suffering. Yeah.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:26:55]:
And so redemptive suffering is when someone enters it with me. And so then I'm not alone anymore. And so, like, one of the gifts that I think I've ex I was experiencing when I when someone sat with me and received my story with kindness Mhmm. And received my story. And again, you guys are so good at this because it's not they didn't try to fix me. Mhmm. And you were telling it's this is these kinds of things in a in a healing journey is generally not about resolving a whole lot, and that drives people crazy.

Pat Millea [00:27:24]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:27:25]:
Because I don't wanna feel this way anymore. Right? I don't wanna act this way anymore, and so we want resolution. And that's we were talking to you before the show. It's like a pill. Like, give me a pill. I'll take it. Yep. And then I'll be healed.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:27:35]:
Yep. Unfortunately, our emotional life and our regulation and our on our suffering and our hurt and our pain doesn't work like that.

Kenna Millea [00:27:40]:
Yeah.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:27:41]:
But it's amazing. And that's why I feel so like, I'm so humbled to be in place because I'm not a certified therapist. I'm not, I didn't go to get a master's in psychology. I'm not a counselor, but I can listen to you. Yeah. Mhmm. And, hopefully, in the tenderness of Jesus and Mary, receive your story. Right? And I that just empowers me for some reason.

Pat Millea [00:28:00]:
Mhmm. Mhmm.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:28:01]:
And because someone did it for me. Actually, a few different people did it for me. And some I have people in my life that I still work on stories with and bringing things up with. So I think that practically is is asking in prayer if if you don't feel like you have anybody in your life to receive that to bring and to to bring kindness into your story. Meaning the the just to receive your heart and and receive your story. And then also is is recognizing that maybe the practical reality is sometimes again, sometimes of this, you you it's hard to do alone. So I totally understand it to acknowledge that. But oftentimes, I'll tell people in prayer, like, the present day symptoms.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:28:33]:
If you ask Jesus I always when I pray with people or talk to people or receive stories, we always just ask Jesus, Father, what story do you want me to write about or to tell? Like, well, you know, why don't you take some time in prayer and just ask the Lord? Because what healing is not is taking your grenade and put it throwing it into your heart and seeing what happens. Right. You're like, oh, thank God, Father. That's not

Kenna Millea [00:28:53]:
Right? Oh my gosh.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:28:54]:
But Jesus knows, like, you I think you mentioned the word threads. Jesus knows the threads, and he knows he what do what thread he's ready to pull now. So very like, never has that, failed when we we're in prayer, and he's like, okay. Let's ask Jesus to reveal. And he shows. Yeah.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:29:08]:
So practically prayer, like, to say, Jesus, is there a story that you wanna bring up for my heart, for my life? And the thing is, like, well, Father, I don't remember much of my childhood. Okay. What what about a story from last week? Mhmm. What about a story from last year? Like, I recently, I I had this experience of struggling to find a root of something because, you know, the root is often helpful. But a year ago, there was something there. I was like, okay. Well, I'm gonna sit with you in that story and let you come into that space, which is super fruitful, which is super fruitful. So maybe it's it's it's it's asking Jesus to brings to has to have someone to bring someone in my life that can receive my story.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:29:41]:
And again, we're not talking about it doesn't even need to leave you formally, but maybe it's a friend that you can say, hey.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:29:45]:
Can we like or maybe it is a spiritual actor or maybe it is a sibling or maybe someone, but someone who has the capacity to receive you in kindness. Mhmm. And then ask the Lord, like, Lord, maybe my present day symptom of insecurity or my present day symptom of being disconnected or my present day symptom of anxiety or loss or whatever it might be. Is there something you wanna show me, Lord, where I hold that challenge or I hold that pain in my life or hold the burden there? And you start to see connections. And if he wants to reveal that, then then then to be able to say, okay. I can tell this story. Yeah. And someone's there to receive it with kindness.

Pat Millea [00:30:14]:
And what I love about that is is getting at I think when in my reflections about the idea of

Pat Millea [00:30:25]:
investigating my story, both preparing for our conversation and just over the years in all the informal ways that I've disclosed my story to folks not even knowing that's what I was doing necessarily.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:30:34]:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Pat Millea [00:30:36]:
The hesitation now has always been, but if I pay attention to that difficult thing, it's gonna explode like that hand grenade you were talking about. If I look directly at it, it's gonna take over my life. Right? There there's that fear For sure. Which is one of the things that leads to, like, repression and closing something off and, choosing to forget parts of my life because I don't want it to take over. But between the 2 kind of practical tips that you're giving of both speaking to the Lord in prayer and saying, Lord, I I need your help in

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:31:06]:
Yeah.

Pat Millea [00:31:07]:
Investigating this, in going into this place because I don't feel safe here. But I trust that if you're with me, you can do something with it. But also not going in there alone. That's that's one of the the, like, goofy cliched quips about

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:31:19]:
Dark alley.

Pat Millea [00:31:20]:
Yeah. Yeah. Your mind is a dark alley. Don't go in there alone. Exactly. It's brilliant. Right? But, like, that kind of an idea, like like, especially the more painful parts of our story, it really is risky to go in there by myself because that's a place where I've already known pain and suffering and hardship. And there's the danger even in therapy sessions of being retraumatized by experiencing something again alone, like you mentioned with trauma.

Pat Millea [00:31:43]:
So being in relationship with God, being in relationship with somebody else, which it turns out is just the structure of the Christian life.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:31:52]:
That's why it's That's why it's like anyway. I'm I'm you know, I think we're pretty set here. We're like bringing the confound confounds to, like, something that the Lord like, you know? And I would even ask the the third thing and then it to to be in relationship with God, with someone else, and yourself. Meaning Right. If sometimes I tell people, like, to be if you're feeling like you're getting overwhelmed in prayer when you're thinking of something, then the only thing that, that that it'd be helpful to do is to to make an act of love and compassion for yourself there. You don't have to understand it. You don't have to go into it. But can I just say, okay, Jesus, in your name, I just wanna bless myself and love myself there, and then something open up opens up, which is really beautiful? Mhmm.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:32:27]:
Mhmm.

Kenna Millea [00:32:28]:
Well, and even in therapy, I will, you know, have clients who they've stumbled upon maybe uncovering a trauma that definitely happens in session, something that was repressed and hidden there. And there'll be lots of signs and symptoms that they're feeling dysregulated, feeling overwhelmed. And I'll say, let's respect the way, particularly your body

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:32:50]:
Totally.

Kenna Millea [00:32:50]:
is speaking to us and give it space. We know it's there. We're not gonna forget it, and and let's, do some of the work around so that we can come back to it, because what we don't want to do right. Trauma is already a violation. Yeah. Trauma is already this sense of, like, boundaries being crossed. Mhmm. We don't want to do that again.

Kenna Millea [00:33:07]:
We don't want to do that to ourselves. And and so, to again, that self compassion you're talking about, Father, like, to be able to to back it up and to

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:33:16]:
Take a deep breath.

Kenna Millea [00:33:17]:
Yeah. And, like, just, trust in the Lord that, like, when it's time, you'll know. And clients have a lot of trouble, accepting that. Because they're like, but I pay you. I came here to, like, do the hard stuff. So, like, I found the thing, so let's go fix it. And

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:33:33]:
You said this would get better.

Kenna Millea [00:33:34]:
Yes. And, again, I'm like, but the process is actually more important than the content. And so the way we approach this is is even more important than, like, what's the thing we're gonna talk about? Or, like, what's the thing we're gonna

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:33:47]:
And it's a deeper communion than we have with ourselves and communion with others. And, the fragment can can be loved back into communion with myself, the the the challenge rather than, like, we gotta go figure it out and we gotta because it's like, woah. Woah. Woah. It's like, I we feel that.

Kenna Millea [00:34:01]:
Yeah. We talk about it. It's like reintegration. Like, how do I, in a lot of internal family systems language that we use here that idea of like.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:34:09]:
I love that too. I started doing the class last last year with that.

Kenna Millea [00:34:11]:
Oh my gosh. It's so amazing. So this idea right

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:34:14]:
All my little parts are very happy right now.

Pat Millea [00:34:19]:
True self is partying.

Kenna Millea [00:34:19]:
Yes. And, like, elements of ourself get exiled and we, like, have this reunion. We have this homecoming. I mean, when I work with clients and they do that those kinds of things and they bring back that that part of themselves or that period of their childhood or what have you, I I think so much of the prodigal son of this, like, coming home of this Yeah. This part that was was, was gone for so long from themselves and and that absence was felt acutely. I thought of my second thing from, like, 10 minutes ago, so I'm gonna

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:34:46]:
I know. This is a great part of this conversation. We just need, like, oh, crap.

Pat Millea [00:34:49]:
Like, we did it. Yeah. Good job. So,

Kenna Millea [00:34:52]:
I I really appreciate and would love to hear more, Father, about, you know, our stories often have to do with the ways that others' woundedness and brokenness, and the world's woundedness and brokenness at large too, but but particular players. Right? How that impacted us and how it contributed. And and I think that is something that, that listeners and clients, there's some fear and trepidation of like, if I do this, am I going to throw my whole family of origin under the bus? You know, am I going to, am I going to end up like not going to Christmas for the next 10 years? Because I'm just filled with so much rage and hate, and and I don't know how to, like, put that in order. And so it feels like there's a both end here. And so I'm curious, like, can you speak to us about that?

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:35:33]:
It's certainly gonna be a tension. Right? And I and I think the word that comes to mind is forgiveness is that we learn to for I mean, first of all, have to accept what happened, and and I love throwing this word in here. We have to spend time grieving what happened. Yes. Right. And so the and the grieving is not like, okay. I had a nice cry Father, I'm done.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:35:52]:
It's like grieving could take years. The the biblical notion also of mourning. Like, I mourn for the loss of my innocence. Right? I'll mourn for the loss of what what I experienced in my childhood. You know? And so I love that because that's also very talk about we can use that at the end, but, like, that's also super practical. I need to accept and just feel and mourn and grieve what happened. And then then I can move into because you can't forgive without any of that. The acceptance of it and the grieving of it, it's like because then, forgiveness becomes an act of the will, which it is.

Pat Millea [00:36:25]:
Sure.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:36:25]:
But it also means that I my heart is changed, and I'm able to let go of the burden of the need to control and find justice for what happened to me. And so we often think that, well, I need to bring that about. And so when we let go, that burden is no longer to us, but it's to the Lord. Right? So forgiveness and also this is kind of a little bit of the, 12 step movement and things like that. It's it's, reasonable sometimes to think that that could have conversation could happen with someone else where I can sit down and say, hey. I'm not sure where mom or dad if you that you know this or that you hurt me, but I just wanna tell you that I forgive you. And sometimes it's not possible. Right.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:37:01]:
And so that's actually where it's super helpful to have someone else around helping you because then you can you can be like, so do I tell them? Mhmm. And so do I not and so do I and so that's the tension because sometimes it's helpful to tell them, but sometimes it's like, okay. Maybe they're deceased or also, I think they say in the 12 step movement, if it will make it worse.

Pat Millea [00:37:18]:
Mhmm. Yeah. Right.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:37:19]:
Mhmm. Then then that's good discernment. But if we kinda get into this, the the zeal of healing and the zeal, there could be a little bit of like, well, I'm just gonna need to do what have to do for me. Mhmm. And we stop thinking, like, the Christian reality is also thinking of others. Totally. Right? So yeah. And so that's why it's that to have I think I have a a good friend, a good spirit director, a counselor, therapist, someone that can, like, navigate that road with you.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:37:42]:
Mhmm. But that takes time. You go you go from accepting to acknowledging to not repressing anymore to grieving to the need to forgive, and then you kinda, like, you know, work in that space. I don't does that get to kind of what you Yeah.

Kenna Millea [00:37:53]:
No. It does. And it it makes me think of how many folks I mean, I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist, so people think, like, oh, I should bring others with me to therapy. Like, you do systems, so I should bring the other people for my sister. Like, I'm gonna bring my husband. I'm gonna bring my mom, my daughter, you know, what have you. And what we often find is, I usually say, like, absolutely. We could consider that down the road.

Kenna Millea [00:38:14]:
Let's start with just you. Like, just me like, since you're the one who called or emailed. Like, let's begin with who wants to come. And we don't even know.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:38:22]:
Instead of forcing other people who don't want to be here.

Kenna Millea [00:38:25]:
We don't know if anybody else wants to join you.

Pat Millea [00:38:26]:
Under duress.

Kenna Millea [00:38:27]:
Yes. So let's start with you. And in the process of telling the story, they usually end up going, I don't know that I need number 1, need to do it here. But number 2, it necessarily needs to be said to them. Yeah. And and so I'm wondering, can you say a bit more about, like, what might be the benefit, you know, of either we have some exercises that we do in my office. One is called the empty chair where we Yeah.

Kenna Millea [00:38:52]:
Absolutely. Pretend as if the person is here.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:38:55]:
Yep.

Kenna Millea [00:38:55]:
And you get to 1, practice it practically if you really are preparing for the conversation, but number 2, the, like, actually therapeutic

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:39:02]:
Reality of that.

Kenna Millea [00:39:03]:
Yes. Like, that's

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:39:04]:
pretty cool.

Kenna Millea [00:39:05]:
Our our system really does feel this release and this sense of, like, I've been hurt. But but yeah. Can you speak a little bit to, what's the importance of of needing to say that or at least simulate saying that to the person who wounded you?

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:39:18]:
Yeah. And and it's also super helpful, I think, you guys might find too why it's important to start with a person. Because I think as we become adults and we we get more mature in the Christian life, I think there's an invitation to tell a truer story of what happened to you. So sometimes I I think we wanna protect the people we love.

Pat Millea [00:39:34]:
Sure.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:39:35]:
And so this is where you're like, well, my parents are good parents. I'm like, I know they're good parents, but if you wanna tell me, like Yeah. If you wanna tell me a little more, that's fine. You know? And, you know, it's, like, it's great. Like, I love your parents. I know them, you know, but it's okay to be, like, well, actually, like, maybe the hurt was more than I thought. Mhmm. Yeah.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:39:51]:
And so the truer version gives someone's experience maybe to have more access to what they felt there, to what they carried there, to what actually happened there. So I just think that's awesome as we go on. And we we the self protection is real, so you have to have a a capacity at some point to say, I'd I'd like to tell tell you more. Yeah. You know, I'd like to I'd like to reflect on more. I do oftentimes in in experiences of forgiveness where you do have let's, like, in prayer, will you, like we can envision your dad here and, well, like, can, like, give you an opportunity through his the Lord's grace just to tell him what you wanna tell him. Mhmm. And that is so impactful.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:40:21]:
And so because the repression is so real most of the time. And because I often when you start to to do the work, you're given more words and more access to how you feel and you're you you, like, need to actually speak that out loud. And so very much so has that been a been a powerful thing, to to give people an opportunity to in in a safe situation, to to practice, but also just to let words give voice to, like, not only this is what happened, but this is how it made me feel, and this is this is the experience I have there. Yeah. You know? And then again, then the the good discernment is, okay. Do we do anything with this? Mhmm. And my experience is often not.

Pat Millea [00:41:03]:
Mhmm. Sure.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:41:03]:
Because then you're talking about someone else's capacity to receive it. Yes. Yep. And then I go into my PR thing. You're like, because I studied public relations. Because then you're like, okay. Well, just because their response to you has nothing to do what you need with what you need to say.

Pat Millea [00:41:14]:
Correct. Right. Right?

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:41:15]:
And what how their capacity to receive it or not. You know? So then you then there's a whole another level of, like, the coverage Yeah. That could take genuine prudence. Yeah. Exactly. Because you could and it doesn't it's good for you to share and acknowledge, but not to criticize and not to point out. Like, no. This is kinda the gift of, like, this is how I'm feeling, and not to to to be have a spirit of criticism or a spirit of blame because that's not super because that'll, you know, cause all their stuff to come up.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:41:38]:
Yeah. Yeah. You know? But that's it's just it's tricky. But that's why it's great to have people around and they can kinda help us navigate that for sure.

Pat Millea [00:41:45]:
Well, that idea of naming it, of saying it out loud, whether the person is right in front of you or whether they had whether they've died, whether it's not possible or helpful to say it to their face.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:41:55]:
Yeah.

Pat Millea [00:41:55]:
Just the power of saying things out loud is so significant. I just I'll tell people all all the time, both in relationship to, you know, emotional relationships, or related to confession. Like, there's a reason the Church says you have to say it out loud. Like, yeah. By all means, like, pray and act for the contrition in your bedroom. That's all good and well. That's great.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:42:14]:
Yeah.

Pat Millea [00:42:15]:
But for confession, you can't just, like, think your thoughts and in the same room as a priest. Like, because your words have power to get the poison out and to to release it into a space where it can actually receive healing. You know? There there and, you know, that idea that Father you were talking about about the the struggle of criticizing parents. I know Kenna has talked to me just in vague terms over the years about how many clients from from beautiful, faithful, loving Catholic or Christian families have such a difficult time acknowledging that their parents ever did anything wrong. Yeah.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:42:49]:
It's hard.

Pat Millea [00:42:50]:
Because it feels like a betrayal. Yeah.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:42:51]:
It does. It does.

Pat Millea [00:42:52]:
It feels like I if I say that my mom made a mistake, I might all of a sudden be saying that my mom is a mistake or that she's a bad mom. Yeah. And all of a sudden then my whole family system gets called into question.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:43:03]:
The structure falls apart.

Pat Millea [00:43:06]:
Yeah. Like, it just this this feeling of, like, a house of cards, like a glass house that I have to protect. And Yeah. No one, especially me, is allowed to throw a stone at the glass house. You know? That that kind of an image is really difficult for people to get through. But I think so helpful just holding the very human tension of, like, I try to be a great dad, and boy am I a screw up sometimes. It just, like, the both/and is always present for everyone. Mhmm. Oh.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:43:30]:
We were just never given any permission. I think in the in the culture we grew up or, like, the age, culture that we grew up in, we were never given any permission to to feel like, hey, there's something that could be off here. Mhmm. You know? And so you just kinda go with it, you know, and then you kinda look back and yeah. Just, yeah, powerful.

Kenna Millea [00:43:47]:
Well, and I think with that too, right, maybe not age culture, and I'd say maybe in today's age and culture, the skills to be able to communicate that

Pat Millea [00:43:57]:
Yeah. Totally.

Kenna Millea [00:43:57]:
In a way that it has the highest likelihood. Right? I don't have total control over how it's received Yeah. Totally. But, like, a high likelihood of being received well. You know, there's a real difference between screaming expletives and name calling Yeah. And actually saying, you know, here are some things that I know I longed for from you and didn't feel like I had received or didn't receive in a way that Yeah. It computed for me. There's a real difference.

Kenna Millea [00:44:20]:
And, and so, yeah, I was actually driving to work this morning and thinking about some skills, lifelong skills that I hope our children are gaining. But one of those is the way that we, try to, yeah, express discontent with each other in our house, and the language we use around it, and the ways that we try to model for our children, being able to come back and say, this is my experience of that thing, or this is how that impacted me. Like, really owning it, as part of the storytelling, versus projecting or you youing or, you know, anything along those lines.

Pat Millea [00:44:56]:
That is the perfect segue into my next question that I have

Kenna Millea [00:44:59]:
Oh, okay.

Pat Millea [00:45:00]:
For Father. So, you know, if we're if we're looking at the other side of the storytelling, process, the idea of receiving someone's story well. Right? I think human nature means that like like you mentioned earlier, I think Father, when someone shares from a deep place of vulnerability and honesty, human nature really does, not require, but it leans us in the direction of responding with empathy and with acceptance.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:45:26]:
Yeah.

Pat Millea [00:45:26]:
I think most of the time, we're able to see the hurt hurt and we're able to respond with love and with charity and with receptivity there. There are certainly times where that wall can go up. And especially if it's someone that we're close with, someone that may be part of their story has resulted in things that have hurt us. Right? If I have a spouse that, is doing things that are harmful to me and it's rooted in part of their story. If someone if a sibling in my family has a story either connected to my family or not that's resulted in a lot of upheaval in my family system, it might be really, really hard for me to hear them and respond with grace and with patience and mercy. So for someone receiving a story, receiving someone else, what what thoughts or or suggestions would you give them on how to respond in kind?

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:46:14]:
And you guys talk about it all the time, I'm sure. Like, but the reality of, like, when we can live an integrated life and we can live, in kind of peace with ourselves in in this window of tolerance in space where we're regulated, you're much likely to be able to spit it to create a safety around you and your heart where you can receive the stories of others. So that's why the word like, the word generally doesn't happen in the moment. You're like, I'm really good at doing this. The day to day experience of being able to to live kind of a a integrated life with my own heart, my own story then allows me to be like, oh, wow. You just mentioned something that I remember from my past and what we'd say triggered. Right? Sure. But it's okay.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:46:48]:
Like, I can kinda stay in a relationship with myself and the Lord and then be able to receive you. You know? One of the things, that that I like the words that I like to throw out there too because, again, I think particularly for men, but, women can do it too, but we're just fixers. And so you share something with me, and I'm like, well, let's fix it. Yeah. Let's do something about it. Let's be quick to speak. Let's be quick to get a plan. You know? And, one of the things I think is important is to validate.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:47:14]:
And so even and I feel still feels awkward for me sometimes. But when someone shares something just to be like, oh, brother, I that just must have been so hard. Yeah. Like, validating, like, yeah, Father. I experienced this. I experienced with their family and just to be like, oh, it's like, I feel I I often say, like, I feel that with you. Mhmm. Mhmm.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:47:33]:
Rather than be like, oh, great, bro. I'm so super grateful for you sharing that and be like, but what? No. No. I and I think the challenge of too is you're off the hook by for men particularly. We were like, oh, oh, Pat it's so so great that you experienced that because my experience is that I had this in my story.

Pat Millea [00:47:49]:
Correct.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:47:49]:
would be like, woah, woah, bro. Who's, like, who's talking the story into this? Who's whose story is.

Pat Millea [00:47:55]:
Just hijack storytelling. Yeah.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:47:56]:
Like and so and again, I see that I got even, like, on that, I see that happening at a net table. You're, like, oh, wow. She's sharing something, and then everybody was, oh, yeah. My experience too. Rather than being, like, that sounds awesome. Yeah. And say, you know, you're in keeping, like, the mem momentum with the other person. Mhmm.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:48:10]:
Right? So it's subtle things sometimes, but I think we do that because we get nervous. Yeah.

Kenna Millea [00:48:14]:
I was just gonna say Because we the tension

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:48:16]:
It's the tension. And and it feels but if you take the pressure off yourself, it's like, what if if they just need a loving presence, a listening presence, like, oh, I just would really love to be with you in that. You know? And and I'm so grateful for you sharing that. And then if you the the the it's great. The skills that we learn just like, hey, in spiritual direction, they always we have been a spiritual rec in school as well, and they always sees, like, the classic spiritual rec. Like, hey, you mentioned this. Can you tell me a little bit more about that?

Pat Millea [00:48:42]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:48:43]:
Which is like a classic, like, yeah.

Pat Millea [00:48:45]:
Just Yep.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:48:45]:
Rather than, like, oh, you said this.

Pat Millea [00:48:47]:
Like, come on.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:48:47]:
So I can I can fix you and this is, like, you know, like, tell me more? Do you mind do you mind sharing a little more? You you you and that's what the story is. I recently had a young man write a story, and and the gift of, like, writing it out is super important because then you can go through it and you have different touch points or trail heads in the midst of the story. Mhmm. And so, like, it's beautiful. Like, hey bro, you mentioned this. Like, what do you can you just take me back there for a second? What was that like? Or what'd that feel like? And you're like, oh, okay. You know? So just like genuine interest, a genuine sense of I hear you, I'm with you rather than and and keeping it on them rather than, like, okay. Well, here's how I would say this needs to be redeemed.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:49:22]:
Mhmm. Like, well, redeeming is is like being with you in it. So, anyways, that kind of a couple different things that I know.

Pat Millea [00:49:27]:
That's beautiful. And and that that exact idea of allowing the the the difficulty of someone else's hardship and just being present with them in that. We one of our episodes that we recorded, I can't even remember which one now, we talked about the the idea that so many times my inclination to fix something is what I might identify is that I want them to feel better. But the reality most of the time is that I want myself to feel better. Because it's hard for me to watch someone else that I love suffering.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:49:58]:
Yep.

Pat Millea [00:49:59]:
So, yeah. Sure. If they feel better, that's fine. But I just don't wanna feel like this anymore. So Exactly. And even if the problem does doesn't go away, I feel better if I have tried to fix it somehow. Right? Even the attempt is, like, therapeutic for me somehow. So just stepping out of myself for a moment and and just acknowledging, like, okay.

Pat Millea [00:50:17]:
This is not about me just like the rest of my life, but this particular moment also not about me. What do they need? What they need is to continue being heard and received and and accompanied through this. Yeah.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:50:27]:
And we're most likely able to do that. Okay. I can do that. I I I feel like this is actually a lot simpler than we think. Yeah. Mhmm. Oh, I can be with you. I can look on you with tenderness and love right now.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:50:36]:
Okay. Yeah.

Kenna Millea [00:50:38]:
It's it is simpler. And I think, especially in this world that we are living in in this day and age, it's not easier because we I think we are used to turning to a technology. We are used to turning to a but what's the fix? What's the thing that's gonna make this not hurt so much or not be such an obstacle for me or an impediment to that goal that I have in mind? And and, Father, you're really proposing to us, like, how does healing actually happen? Mhmm. Like, healing doesn't happen through fixing it. Yeah. Like, healing happens through this accompaniment and

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:51:11]:
This relationship and this place. Yeah.

Kenna Millea [00:51:13]:
And I think about Pat and I, had the privilege of, of having John Cavadini at Notre Dame in the theology department. He was the chair of the department. And in our catechism class, he said, like, I don't have to save the world, but I have to be conformed to the love that already did. And so Come on. Like right? And so, like, like, you are saying to us, like, can you be Christ? Like, can you can you be, just that that willing heart and presence that bring your vulnerability? I think about even too sometimes with clients, I'll say to them, like, that is so hard for me to hear that you went through that. You're just being real with them. I think they think I'm a therapist. I've heard it all, which, I mean, I have in some ways.

Kenna Millea [00:51:54]:
But, like, but sometimes just being honest to me, like, my heart is breaking for you as you share.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:51:59]:
Tears that come to their eyes. When you say something like that, they're like it's like a shock. They're like, oh my gosh. Like, someone's actually, like, breaking through my self protection Yeah. Yeah. And receiving me. It's really powerful.

Pat Millea [00:52:10]:
Yeah. Yeah. Like, the the feeling of being seen and understood and known in a way that maybe you've never been received like that before. Like, that like you said, it's it's not some revolutionary crazy new skill that humanity has just now discovered. In in a lot of ways, it's just returning to what it means, like, to be in genuine face to face reality and relationship, you know, like recovering some of those abilities.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:52:35]:
And I wonder if you guys see this, and I think this is what you're getting at. But when you start to do that and their story starts to open up, we're Christ to them, but then that's the whole image and likeness thing. You start to see, like, glimmers through the darkness, through the struggle, through the pain of, like, who they are in the Lord. You're like, oh my gosh. Like, there's light coming through now, and you start to see Jesus. And I think that's the gift of, like, this this relationship we have as Christians, moms and dads and and moms and kids and then priests and people, like, whatever it might be, but you start to recognize this two way street, and you're like and that's where, like, you can be done at the end of the day going through things and doing things. And you're like, I said before the Lord. I'm just like, Lord, that was powerful.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:53:15]:
Mhmm. Because you were there. Mhmm. And not only in me, hopefully. Yeah. And the other person. Yeah. It's really beautiful.

Pat Millea [00:53:21]:
I think of the ways that relates to, like, the work of the the missionaries of charity or or your work with the with the folks in in Harlem and the Bronx of the poor and the vulnerable. And we were just in in the Bronx this past summer and just just a reminder of, like, the rawness of of the east side of, like like, the South Bronx and and, certain places in the world, you know, and, like, somebody laying without a home on the street for days at a time, like mother Teresa would have said that in the Jesus present in the distressing disguise of the poor. Right? That that that on the outside, what we see with our eyes is this rough tough exterior, But but in there are those glimmers that you're talking about that that the dignity, the presence of Christ is there, that they have a story, and that for whatever reason, the story has has led them to this place with me standing right in front of them. So so what's my response to that moment? And, you know, all of us probably have encounters with people living in material poverty at some point. We ought to at least as Christians, as Catholics, but all of us have experiences of that at minimum on a spiritual level. That way, with the people that we love in our own homes, the people that we work with, our friends, our neighbors, people who their their circumstances, their story has put them right in front of us. So how can I see Jesus present to them in whatever the distressing disguise is?

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:54:43]:
Yeah. There's a a friend of mine who gets a buys a pizza every once in a while and will go downtown where he lives and just sit with 1 of 1 of the people on the street and have pizza and say, hey. What's your story? Mhmm.

Kenna Millea [00:54:53]:
Oh my gosh.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:54:54]:
You know, in this vein in this vein of and we teach our guys as well, like, the gift of our relational ministry is that we are not gonna solve poverty. We are not gonna a a lot of our neighbors are mentally ill. A lot of our neighbors are addicted. We they don't leave us without, like, the addiction healed. Yeah. They don't leave us with their depression healed. But do we have do they give us more access to their hearts? Do they give us more access to their stories? You're like, okay. That's that's what Jesus that's how Jesus loved.

Pat Millea [00:55:21]:
Mhmm.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:55:22]:
You know? So and again, I love you. You're like, okay. Whether it's the guy on the street or whether it's my my son or whether it's my brother or whether it's a a net missionary, whatever it might be, like, if we can live in that way, then I'm generally interested in you. I just it's beautiful because that's like healing at its at its core.

Pat Millea [00:55:37]:
Yeah.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:55:38]:
We start to do that if we start to live in a space with each other in that way. It's really

Pat Millea [00:55:42]:
And that's so motivating to me too. Like, okay. So you're telling me I don't have to solve poverty? I just have to I have to love the person who's in front of me? Okay. Like, I can do that. Like, I forget that other thing. I can't do that, but I can do this particular kind of love that the Lord has already called me to.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:55:57]:
You guys are probably not understand, like, the you those in ministry. Like, I'll I'll clump all the ministries together, like, focus, life team, met, you know, Damascus, all these amazing missionaries. Yeah. They they kinda look at us, like, hey, what's your kinda, like, grand plan for evangelization? Like, there's no plan, bro. You know, some of them are busy business savvy and we're gonna fundraise and we're gonna do this. I'm, like, plan? You guys look at us. There's no plan. It's in the door.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:56:20]:
That's the plan, you know. You so so it's really But

Pat Millea [00:56:24]:
But what's your one sheet project, Father?

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:56:26]:
Plan? I don't have a plan. I'm gonna show up for prayer. Go to breakfast with the guys and then make phone calls. You know what I mean? That's the plan, you know. But it's just like, okay. What's in front of me?

Kenna Millea [00:56:34]:
Yeah.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:56:35]:
You know? And so, like, my you people who come to you, like, they they, like, moment and moment. Like like, an opportunity. Like, this is my day, which is spent with you. Great. Okay. This is the plan. Again, I love taking pressure off people. You're like, you know, you don't actually have to, like, solve everything today.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:56:55]:
Oh, that's beautiful, man. Yeah. Well, they go, dude. Are we done? Are we done? Oh, it went too quick.

Kenna Millea [00:57:01]:
Well, I think when you said every time I come to Minnesota, we should do we were like, okay. Okay. I'll tell you.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:57:06]:
Have to be a 4 hour marathon.

Pat Millea [00:57:07]:
This is great.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:57:08]:
This is great.

Pat Millea [00:57:08]:
This is great. Marathon. And we will give you a barely tastable sparkling water every day. It'll be great. You'll love it.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:57:15]:
Yeah. Failed. I failed.

Pat Millea [00:57:18]:
Father, what a gift. So you mentioned this a little bit earlier on, but in in in terms of something practical that we could challenge our listeners with of a way to start living this out more practically in their lives, what's a challenge by choice you would offer folks?

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:57:32]:
Yeah. I think maybe there's a couple of I will put those couple together to to start praying for that the Lord would send me someone to receive my story. That could be formal, like, I need to go therapy or that could be informal that a friend came into my life and and really with the eyes of Jesus. And also, I I would say for the grace to, to have Jesus show me a part of my story that I need to accept and grieve. And again, that's a space where I can with someone else's feel and and experience my life. And, again, there's part of me is, like, tempted to be like, okay. And then you do this, and then after that, we might but, like, to accept my story and to grieve. Yeah.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:58:06]:
What happened to me and with someone else? And that will open up. And and, again, I'll add to that, like, the space of having compassion on myself and my story as well. So hopefully, that's clear. So

Kenna Millea [00:58:16]:
Yes. Yes. And we will clarify it in the show notes too. So, Father, as we round up this episode, would you mind closing us in prayer?

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:58:24]:
I would love to. In the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Amen. Amen. Just through the intercession of our blessed mother, through her spouse, Saint Joseph, to all of our patron saints, we just really, dwell in the the gift of the presence of God in this very moment who's alive in our hearts. We pray for the gift of peace, to know that, our story, matters, and our story was meant for glory and the revelation of God in Jesus. And, Lord, you give us everything we need and everyone we need, to remove every obstacle that is in the way of a deeper communion and integration we have with ourselves so we can love you in the world and share you with others. Give us joy.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [00:59:11]:
Give us peace. Give us confidence in you, Lord, and and bless this beautiful couple and their family. Bless all those who listen. May we experience the gift of your presence this day. And I bless all of you in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Amen.

Pat Millea [00:59:23]:
Amen. Amen.

Kenna Millea [00:59:25]:
Awesome. Well, thank you again, Father Angelus. Thank you. Thank you. And thank you to our listeners, for being with us for another awesome episode. Check us out on social media, @thiswholelifepodcast. Would you please consider who's one person, maybe the person you're gonna invite to to to share stories with, who's one person that you could share this episode with? Let's spread the word. Let's spread this goodness.

Kenna Millea [00:59:49]:
And until next time, God bless you.

Pat Millea [00:59:56]:
This Whole Life is a production of the Martin Center For Integration. Visit us online at thiswholelifepodcast.com.

Fr. Angelus Montgomery [01:00:05]:
My my brother-in-law talks about, LaCroix is, that you get dirty dishwater and you throw a fruit basket past it. You're like, alright. Alright.