Ep60 How To Create A Habit

“Have patience with all things, but chiefly have patience with yourself. Do not lose courage in considering your own imperfections, but instantly set about remedying them - every day begin the task anew.”
~ St. Francis de Sales

Why are my habits so hard to change?
Why do I keep doing the things I don't want to do?
How do I build a new habit and get rid of others?

In Episode 60, Kenna and Pat Millea take a deep dive into the psychology and spirituality of habit formation. They unpack the common struggles that we face when trying to build or break habits and encourage a self-compassionate approach that motivates us toward real change. Drawing insights from sources like Thomas Aquinas and James Clear's Atomic Habits, they explore how habits can align with spiritual goals and lead to a Christ-centered life. Whether you're hoping to be free from habitual sin or to create a workout routine, this episode offers practical tips for habit formation, paying attention to cues, cravings, responses, and rewards. Join us for a clearer way toward self-discipline and holiness!

We're happy to share this episode of This Whole Life with the SEEK Podcast Network.

Episode 60 Show Notes

Learn more about SEEK 2025: Follow Me

Chapters:
0:00: Introduction and Highs & Hards
9:21: Why habits matter
18:33: The four stages of a habit
29:05: Analyzing my cues & the way habits compound
41:21: Challenge By Choice

Reflection Questions:

1. What is one specific thing that stuck with you from this conversation?
2. How can habit formation be a tool to enrich your spiritual life, and not just as an exercise in self-improvement? 
3. What are one or two bad habits that you want to break?
4. What are one or two good habits that you want to create? 
5. How might you invite the Lord into the work of building good habits? What natural steps can you take through your own will & efforts?

Thank you for listening! Visit us online at thiswholelifepodcast.com, and send us an email with your thoughts, questions, or ideas.

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Interested in more faith-filled mental health resources? Check out the Martin Center for Integration

Music: "You're Not Alone" by Marie Miller. Used with permission.

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction and Highs & Hards
• 9:21 Why habits matter
• 18:33 The four stages of a habit
• 29:05 Analyzing my cues & the way habits compound
• 41:21 Challenge By Choice

Transcript

Kenna Millea [00:00:00]:
And for us as people of faith, the change in state we're talking about is conversion. The change in state we're talking about is letting our lives, our hearts, our habits more perfectly, more clearly reflect Jesus's heart, his life.

Pat Millea [00:00:21]:
Welcome to This Whole Life, a podcast for all of us seeking sanity and sanctity, and a place to find joy and meaning through the integration of faith and mental health. I'm Pat Millea, a Catholic speaker, musician, and leader, and I'm here with my bride, Kenna, a licensed marriage and family therapist. This is the stuff she and I talk about all the time, doing dishes in the car on a date. We're excited to bring you this podcast for educational purposes. It's not therapy or a substitute for mental health care. So come on in. Have a seat at our dining room table and join the conversation with us. We are so glad you're here.

Pat Millea [00:01:10]:
Hello, and welcome to This Whole Life. We are so blessed to be with you. We're so blessed to be with one another. Well, I speak for myself. I'm blessed to be with you.

Kenna Millea [00:01:21]:
It is always good to be with you, my love.

Pat Millea [00:01:24]:
Almost always.

Kenna Millea [00:01:24]:
Always. Always. Great.

Pat Millea [00:01:26]:
Okay. Welcome. Good. Welcome. I will take it.

Kenna Millea [00:01:27]:
If you are new here joining us, from the SEEK conference. We are so grateful to have you. Yes. Always happy to to, quote, see new faces around these parts.

Pat Millea [00:01:38]:
If we can't be at SEEK in person Yeah. The next best thing is to be virtually at SEEK through the SEEK podcast network. So to all the FOCUS missionaries, all the students involved with FOCUS, hello, greetings, and, blessings from This Whole Life.

Kenna Millea [00:01:53]:
Yeah. And maybe a word of who the heck we are and why on earth you'd ever wanna listen to us.

Pat Millea [00:01:58]:
Yes, please.

Kenna Millea [00:01:59]:
So I am Kenna Millea, and I am a marriage and family therapist in Minnesota. And, in addition to cofounding the Martin Center For Integration, which produces This Whole Life podcast, we have a clinic of 10 clinicians here in the Twin Cities. And, Pat, you and I also get the privilege of traveling around to speak and train on this integrated life of mental health and our beautiful Catholic faith and how they just they they fit together like peas in a pod. They just go together.

Pat Millea [00:02:32]:
Living daily mental health within the truth, the beauty, the tradition of our Catholic faith.

Kenna Millea [00:02:38]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Pat Millea [00:02:38]:
It's a great gift.

Kenna Millea [00:02:39]:
And what brings you here? Why do you find yourself across from me? Well, you bring me here, first of all. But

Kenna Millea [00:02:40]:
So much across from me?

Pat Millea [00:02:41]:
Well, you bring me here, first of all. But

Kenna Millea [00:02:44]:
So much begging.

Pat Millea [00:02:45]:
Well, my parents brought me here before all that. No. I was in parish ministry for many years. You and I, Kenna, met at the University of Notre Dame years ago in college. And, I spent 15 years in parish youth ministry where I was very much face to face with the mental and spiritual health struggles that people get into just through the course of daily life in a fallen world and now it's a blessing to be here with you. So I get to speak and and lead music and worship in different places around the country. And most importantly, you and I have been married for 15 years, and we have 7 beautiful children, and we drive a 12 passenger van.

Kenna Millea [00:03:20]:
Yes. Those are those are the the bullet points.

Pat Millea [00:03:23]:
Within the will of the Lord.

Kenna Millea [00:03:24]:
Oh, that's the

Pat Millea [00:03:25]:
big van. Yes.

Kenna Millea [00:03:26]:
All the things that you need to know about us.

Pat Millea [00:03:28]:
Well, one of the things that we love to do with This Whole Life is to start off with a high and a hard to give you a little background about what's going on with us recently. Ladies first, my love, would you kick us off?

Kenna Millea [00:03:38]:
Yeah. Absolutely. So I would say a hard lately is, just this this recognition that, the greatest gift I can give, right, when I'm in a relationship with someone is to to honor their freedom, to let them be their authentic self. But what happens when their authentic self and their freedom does not align with my desires for things? I don't know. Say in a spouse, in a child, in a coworker, in an employee, in a friend. Like, life just keeps giving me these chances to recognize, like, oh, nope. There's some attachment. Like, there's some unhealthy disordered attachment there.

Kenna Millea [00:04:23]:
And so the hard lately has been, like, grappling with like, after my temper tantrum of, like, why can't it be the way that I want it to be? Like, then coming to this realization of, like, oh, because God has another different, maybe better plan, and this is gonna require me surrendering again. So I really can do what I say I wanna do, what I mean to do, which is honor the other person's freedom and who they're called to be. So that has been hard. And when you have teenagers, it's really extra hard. Mhmm. Mhmm.

Pat Millea [00:04:54]:
Not choosing an authentic self for them. Yeah. Letting them develop it with God's help. Yeah.

Kenna Millea [00:04:59]:
Giving them space. Also hard with 4 year olds. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say.

Pat Millea [00:05:02]:
Harder, I would say.

Kenna Millea [00:05:03]:
Less confidence in their, reason being developed. And then the high lately has been okay. Similarly, reflecting on relationships, just had some opportunities recently to connect. You know, when you know when you have a friend from, like, this world over here and another friend from this world over there, and you're like, you should mean hang out. We should be friends, and I should be the glue that holds this party together. Like, having some opportunities lately to do that, And it is just so beautiful. Like when you get to introduce 2 people who mean so much to you, but who you trust could like enrich one another's lives.

Kenna Millea [00:05:38]:
Like it's awesome. And so, yeah, just reflecting on some opportunities lately and just, yeah, how the Holy Spirit was really present because it went well.

Pat Millea [00:05:48]:
That's beautiful.

Kenna Millea [00:05:48]:
Yeah. That's great. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What's going on for you?

Pat Millea [00:05:52]:
I think a hard lately has been, like, I don't know if this is tied to your hard or not, But there have been just a couple moments that I remember that I am a sinner in a marriage Oh. And not just a perfect man in a marriage. Oh. There's no grand confession that I have for you right now. What I'm saying is, there have just been a few occasions the past week or so where you and I, like, despite our best efforts, despite our genuine love for each other, have just, like, crossed our swords a little bit, you know, in the middle of a good image. GK Chesterton said that marriage is a battle to the death. And both of us die along the way. And he meant it, I think, in a really encouraging way.

Pat Millea [00:06:38]:
Long story short, you and I have had some disagreements. And it does not make me have any questions about our marriage whatsoever or about you. But just the difficulty of a disagreement with someone that you love so much is just hard. So minor hard there. The high lately, I have 2 little highs. I'm gonna squeeze them in because I'm worried that I'm not gonna get the rules. I know. So one of them was, you had a big, like, conference class thing that you had to go to for the course of, like, 3 days.

Pat Millea [00:07:07]:
So I had the crazy idea of asking my grandmother who was in northwest Iowa if I could bring all 7 of our children overnight to her house.

Kenna Millea [00:07:15]:
By the way, she is a devoted listener. So hello.

Pat Millea [00:07:18]:
She is a devoted listener. Hello, grandma. How are you? So we brought all of our children down to Graettinger, Iowa. You did. I did. Excuse me. I brought 7 children to Graettinger, Iowa. And it was just so great.

Pat Millea [00:07:29]:
I'm sure my grandma slept for 3 days after we left because of all the energy and action that was going on in her house. But we went to mass in Graettinger. We raked leaves for her and jumped in the piles, and we went to the playground and watched football. And it was just it was really, really fun to spend time with her. And, usually when we get together with that side of the family, there's like it's like a family reunion almost. There's like 50 people around. So it was great to just have our kids being able to spend some time with their great grandmother and it was really special. The second little high is that we are recording shortly after All Souls Day and All Saints Day, but also Halloween.

Pat Millea [00:08:06]:
And taking our little kids out trick or treating was the funniest thing ever this year.

Kenna Millea [00:08:10]:
Was it?

Pat Millea [00:08:10]:
Our youngest was 4 years old, and I she's not in the space yet where she has long term memory to recall what trick or treating is like last year. So we get halfway down the street and people just giving her free candy. They keep giving her free candy. So she looks at me halfway through and she goes, daddy, do you know what I love? What do you love? She goes, trick or treating. And they were like

Kenna Millea [00:08:34]:
Light bulb went off.

Pat Millea [00:08:35]:
They did the like the coming home, the dumping out the candy, the sorting, the trading, the eating. It was just so great. And yes, there were meltdowns later on and the next day. But I don't want to hear it from you because it was beautiful and it was worth it for those glimpses of childhood glory.

Kenna Millea [00:08:51]:
Someday they'll make a Grinch of, like, story about Halloween and I'll I'll write it for them. I'll I'll let them know what the Grinch feels like on Halloween.

Pat Millea [00:08:58]:
Halloween Grinch Yes. Starring Kenna Millea. Oh, gosh. Well, it was great. Well, thanks for sharing that, my dear.

Kenna Millea [00:09:04]:
Yeah. No. I love that. I did not know Halloween was that impressionable for you.

Pat Millea [00:09:07]:
So it was great. It was beautiful.

Kenna Millea [00:09:09]:
I learned new things about you.

Pat Millea [00:09:10]:
It's by far not my favorite holiday, but they're just little glimpses of, like, the pure innocence of childhood even in a thing like Halloween and high fructose corn syrup.

Kenna Millea [00:09:18]:
It's great.

Kenna Millea [00:09:19]:
Okay. I don't know about that, but

Pat Millea [00:09:21]:
I'm really excited to talk about what we are getting into today. Yeah. Good of all of our friends at SEEKa and all of our friends elsewhere in the world. We get to talk about habits today.

Kenna Millea [00:09:32]:
Yes.

Pat Millea [00:09:33]:
Can you tell me how why are we doing this?

Kenna Millea [00:09:35]:
Okay. So I have this idea because we have had a lot of requests lately from organizations and individuals who are asking for guidance on this. And I think particularly because it is a topic that is addressed in the broader culture, like, let's say in the secular culture. But this question of like, but does our faith have something to add to this that I would miss that I, you know, I'd be selling it short, if I didn't hear it through that lens of faith, through that perspective of being Catholic. And so, yeah, the answer is yes. Absolutely. And so, just really, really excited to talk about this because there are so many ways in which our spiritual life, can be enriched by an understanding of the psychology of habit formation, that we can get so self critical. We can despair.

Kenna Millea [00:10:29]:
We can be confused about what is sinful and what is not, when it comes to trying to create a habit, trying to stick to habits, all these things. So, I love this. Lent is like my favorite time of year. And so if there's anything that I have thought a lot about, it's like in Lent, we try to create some habits. We try to break some habits. So how can we bring all that wisdom to bear in daily life? Doesn't always have to be penitential. There can be lots of reasons to to wanna make and break habits. So that is what we're diving into.

Pat Millea [00:11:01]:
I am so excited. And I I'm coming at this more as an amateur, number 1, because I am not a therapist like you are. So so much of what happens in your office, I assume I guess has to do with building good healthy habits mentally, emotionally, physically, spiritually, and maybe breaking, getting away from unhealthy or destructive habits.

Kenna Millea [00:11:23]:
So true. So so true. One of the first questions we'll ask in an intake is tell me about sleep. Tell me about eating. Tell me about body movement. Tell me about your use of drugs and alcohol. Tell me about your, like, all these things. Tell me about screen time.

Kenna Millea [00:11:34]:
Like, yes. Essentially, give me the laundry list of your habits, and I will be able to make some pretty quick, I don't say assumptions, but maybe paint a picture of where you might be struggling based on what your habits are. So I think where we could start is maybe just by defining, like, what are we talking about when we talk about habits? So turning to my friend Britannica, we're just gonna keep it real simple. But it's the idea of, a usual way of behaving. Something that a person does in an in a repeated way. And, you know, we hear the phrase like, Oh, it was habitual. Like, I don't even have to think about it. And there are so many areas in life where we'd like to be using less energy.

Kenna Millea [00:12:16]:
We'd like it to be taking less consternation and stress and and forethought in order to do something like get to bed on time or, you know, refrain from food, drink, things that we know, like, doesn't make us feel better in the morning. So thinking about habits, in this way of behavioral, in which you're right, Pat. Like, therefore, so much of psychotherapy, right, cognitive behavioral therapy especially has to bear on this idea of habit formation.

Pat Millea [00:12:46]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Kenna Millea [00:12:47]:
And in creating a habit is hard work. Like, I just wanna normalize that this is, this is not easy as you mentioned, Pat. Like, you're coming in as, like, the amateur, the student.

Pat Millea [00:12:55]:
And as the sanguine, by the way.

Kenna Millea [00:12:57]:
Say. Yes. And if you don't know that we have a recent episode, episode 59 of our podcast with the authors of The Temperament God Gave You. And so much light can be shed for my clients when they understand their temperament to know that, you know, generally speaking, cholerics and melancholics have a have an easier time with creating a habit. And those who are of the sanguine, phlegmatic flavor Hi. They struggle. It's it's a natural inclination or or difficulty. So just to name that, like, it's understandable that we struggle with this.

Pat Millea [00:13:33]:
Mhmm.

Kenna Millea [00:13:34]:
And and to kind of, I don't know, put any shame that we feel aside around this idea of, like, I'm just not good at creating new habits. I just I always find myself falling off the wagon. Like, okay. Good self knowledge, like, understanding your temperament might be a key insight for you to increase a little bit of self compassion.

Pat Millea [00:13:53]:
Yeah. The what I'm hearing you say, I guess, is is the ability to create habits or I should say the ease at which someone creates habits is not necessarily a moral or spiritual issue. That may just be a temperament issue. It doesn't mean that sin is okay and it doesn't mean that not having a habit of prayer is okay. What it means is those habits may come more easily to some people than to others and all of us are responsible for what we do in the course of our own call to holiness. Right?

Kenna Millea [00:14:25]:
Yeah. Well and I think that's a really good point to to put it in the context of the call to holiness. Right? Because this is where as people of faith, it sets this question of habit formation apart a little bit, because I could create a lot of habits. Right? I could create habits to make myself more beautiful, to make myself more Impossible. More buff, smarter. You know, what who knows? Whatever. But but what we're saying is, yeah, what habits might God be asking me to develop so that I can live a more Christ focused, Christ reflective life, one that really brings him into the lives of those that that I encounter daily.

Pat Millea [00:15:03]:
Which is what kind of strikes me as as the point of having a conversation about habits as a Catholic, which is you know so if our ultimate destination if our goal is heaven which is just another way of saying Jesus if if our goal is to be with God forever then everything about this life is about that goal for myself and God willing for as many people around me as I can introduce to Jesus as possible. So then the point of developing habits would seem to be to make easier or to make more habitual the things that will direct me toward heaven and to break the habits that will lead me further away or get me off track from heaven. That that if I'm fighting against these habits, if if my habit of hitting the snooze button in the morning is interfering with my habit of daily prayer then I have to work to destroy one habit and build up another to smooth my path of holiness. Right?

Kenna Millea [00:16:00]:
Absolutely. Absolutely. And so, I think that, you know, we often quote, this line from Thomas Aquinas that grace perfects nature or grace builds upon nature. And what we love about this so, so much is it's a both and. It's both this acknowledgment of God's desire to meet us where we're at by supplementing with grace and also the initiative, the agency that we have to show up with, in our nature. So, to go, Okay. How do I better prepare? How do I better train? How do I better discipline that nature? Well, through habits. Right? Like, my spiritual director was saying the other day, that the the greater the human capacity, the greater the capacity to receive the grace.

Kenna Millea [00:16:46]:
Right? Like, that makes sense. Like, the the the bigger my bowl to receive it, like, the more God can pour in and we trust. We know we he desires to give us what we need. Mhmm. And so habits are one of those ways that we can enlarge that receptivity, to the grace so that it can be effective in us.

Pat Millea [00:17:03]:
Yeah.

Kenna Millea [00:17:04]:
And I think, you know, something else too, Pat, like in talking with clients, in talking with, you know, members of these organizations that we get to speak and train with, sometimes people will, you know, have this just this discouragement and this sense of being really down and hard on themselves of like, I guess I just don't have the willpower. Like, I guess I just don't care enough. I must not like love God enough to try to break the habit of hitting snooze and get up and pray daily. But there is, there is science in this too. Like, there is a neurological reality to what's going on in habit formation. And, and so, I want to discuss that today because I think if we can understand that, we can let it be to our benefit to go, Oh, okay. And to be more thoughtful about it instead of just seeing this pile of, you know, broken attempts and just thrown in the towel. So to look at, like, what actually goes on? What is the process in our brains? And how can we break that down? How can we slow it down and be more intentional, to hopefully experience greater success, greater outcome.

Pat Millea [00:18:11]:
To get away from shame, I presume, and to not just look at all of my failures like, oh, well, I am a terrible Catholic again. But but to look at our our habits, failures and successes in the context of the reality of our brains, the reality of our souls, and just to keep moving forward in the direction of virtue and holiness. Yeah.

Kenna Millea [00:18:32]:
Right. Definitely. Yeah.

Pat Millea [00:18:33]:
So how do we start? What's what's Yeah. Tell me about my brain.

Kenna Millea [00:18:35]:
Yeah. Tell you my brain. So first of all, I wanna say there is an awesome book by James Clear called The Atomic Habit, and we'll link it up to the show notes today. The show notes are such a rich place where we'll capture some great quotes. And, I'm gonna ask you to put up this quadrant, this, image, that will help illustrate the neurological process. So all that will be in the show notes. So we'll link up to to Clear's book as well there. But he talks about the fact that there are 4 stages of a habit, cue, craving, response, reward.

Kenna Millea [00:19:07]:
Okay. So let's break down these these 4 steps in what creates a habit cycle.

Pat Millea [00:19:12]:
Hit me.

Kenna Millea [00:19:13]:
So okay. So in a cue, we are triggering the brain to initiate the behavior. So we're giving that signal. We're giving that sign of like, Hey, we're going to start doing that thing again in a craving. We're talking about the motivating force or the urge. So cue, for example, Pavlov's dog, the bell ringing craving is like, they start salivating. They're, like, already thinking about what they want. Right? The treat that they want or whatever's coming out of the machine.

Pat Millea [00:19:41]:
So the craving is like the interior desire, the feeling, the the urge.

Kenna Millea [00:19:45]:
It gets me to act with my 3rd step, which is the response. So the response is the thing that's going to achieve the desired reward. So I I gotta get the urge satisfied. Right? So the craving presents the urge to me, and the response is that that movement, that action that's gonna that's gonna get that satiated. And then finally, there's that 4th step of the reward itself. So in the reward, it's the reason for all of this. It's like, what? It's like, that satisfaction of like, okay, I got the thing that I came for. So let's talk this through in some, like, very real life scenarios, some things that I myself have experienced in terms of making a habit and breaking a habit.

Kenna Millea [00:20:31]:
And we can just talk it out this way. So, there was a time a few years ago when I really, really, really wanted to create the habit of exercising in the morning, getting my body moving in the morning. And so the cue for me at that time was, enlisting a friend to do it with me. Hi, Hillary. Thank you so much. And in the morning, we would text each other like an encouraging, like, hey, are you up? I'm up. Are you ready? I'm ready. Like, are you ready to kickbox? I'm ready to kick butt.

Kenna Millea [00:21:03]:
Like, whatever it was that we decided to do that day. Like, in the morning that cue that reminder, like, lest I forget why my alarm is going off at 5:30 in the morning, like, you know, checking my phone. Oh, that's right. Like, if I had forgotten that cue was there, like, let's get energized. Let's do this. So in making that habit, that cue was really helpful for me. Attach it to a person and a cue is very powerful.

Pat Millea [00:21:25]:
I was gonna say a cue plus accountability. Yes. Hey. Oh.

Kenna Millea [00:21:28]:
Very, very powerful. So then there's the the craving. And so, again, this is that that motivating urge. So for me, this may sound so ridiculous, but, like, I had researched a pair of shoes of, like, I haven't worked out in a long time. I've been having a lot of babies and hadn't been doing a ton of working out.

Pat Millea [00:21:44]:
Which is work to be fair.

Kenna Millea [00:21:45]:
It's work, but it's not this kind of work. And so I had pitched. I'd spend time researching. Like, I picked a great pair of cross training shoes that I could, like, go running in, go hit, whatever strength training. And so, like, having wanting to use those shoes, it sounds so silly, but, like, the urge, this motivating force of, like, yeah. I wanna make good on that. And, also, I don't wanna let down my friend who, like, also dragged herself out of bed in the dark at 5:30 in the morning. Mhmm.

Kenna Millea [00:22:13]:
So that that urge, like, okay, propelling me forward to that third step, which is the response. So absolutely helpful for me in making this habit, having my clothes, having my shoes right by the bedside. Like, couldn't even get 2 steps out before I, like, stumbled upon them and was like, okay. Yes. I'm gonna put these on. I'm gonna get myself moving. Well, now I'm dressed. Like, I might as well go.

Kenna Millea [00:22:37]:
Might as well go to the gym. So, other things that were super helpful, in the response were thinking about, like, how do we make it easy to respond? How do we how do we do this, by removing any obstacles, that could get in the way? So for me, it was pulling up the workout the night before or pulling up the playlist that I was gonna listen to, charging my AirPods. Like, all those things that I could use as an excuse, like eliminating those and making it so easy to go, you know what? It's like plug and play. Like, I just gotta slide into these clothes and shoes and, like, I'm on my way. Like, that's easy enough.

Pat Millea [00:23:13]:
Channeling your inner John the Baptist of, like, filling in the valleys, lowering the mountains, making straight the way for the early morning workout. Right?

Kenna Millea [00:23:21]:
Yes.

Pat Millea [00:23:21]:
Just like eliminating as many barriers as possible so you can make the response that you want to make.

Kenna Millea [00:23:26]:
Yes. No, absolutely. So, so again, if we're, if we're thinking this through, like we want to, to ease this whole process, we want to make the cues obvious. We want to, make the craving attractive, right? My shiny new shoes. We want to make the response, easy to access. And then finally, we want to make the reward satisfying. So, one of the things that my girlfriend and I would do is the same this really, really challenging. And, Pat, you've done this workout a couple times, so you can attest.

Kenna Millea [00:23:56]:
This really challenging workout. It is cardio

Pat Millea [00:24:00]:
Not rewarding, at least on an emotional level.

Kenna Millea [00:24:03]:
This cardio HIIT thing. And so we would do it periodically and, like, measure our, like, success and progress. And really, it was measured by, like, how crummy do we feel at the end of this workout? Like, how much are we sucking wind?

Pat Millea [00:24:14]:
I only passed out at minute 21 this time. That's really good.

Kenna Millea [00:24:16]:
Legitimately, there were times in the beginning where, like, we didn't make it through the whole It was so intense. But but, like, however you want to measure that success and go, like, yes, that's that's getting satisfied. So this is the way we wanna think about being able to develop a habit. Okay. So then on the flip side, breaking a habit. And like you pointed out, Pat, earlier, a lot of times the two come together.

Pat Millea [00:24:39]:
Right.

Kenna Millea [00:24:39]:
And it can be helpful, especially when the focus is on breaking maybe a bad habit, a a sinful habit. Yeah. A habit that we know isn't good for our health, psychologically or physically. It can be helpful to pair the two because something can take the place of the bad habit.

Pat Millea [00:24:56]:
Mhmm.

Kenna Millea [00:24:57]:
So when we're trying to break a habit, again, going back to the top with that cue, we want to make the cue as invisible as possible. So a bad habit that I've been trying to break is scrolling my phone at night and just the interminable scroll that Instagram and social media is willing to offer me.

Pat Millea [00:25:15]:
Doom scrolling is my preferred description. Yep.

Kenna Millea [00:25:18]:
It so is. How does like 20 minutes pass so fast? Anyways, so, so we want to make that bad cue invisible. So, for example, maybe the decision to dock your phone in the kitchen at 9 o'clock at night, and maybe even setting an alarm on your phone that just goes off every day at 9 PM and, you know, blurts this message of, like, take me to the kitchen, like, plug me into the kitchen, whatever. This reminder, and It's like, okay, that's my shutoff time. Like I'm done and docking it there. So I want to make the phone right. Which is that queue. Otherwise, I'm like, I should check that out.

Kenna Millea [00:25:54]:
I haven't been on social in like 20 minutes. Like I should see what's going on over there. Making that as invisible as possible. Then there's the craving. So we want to make the bad craving as unattractive as possible. Like make it ugly, make it real ugly. So for example, back to that accountability you were talking about, which is such a powerful force. If you have a spouse, if you have a housemate, if you have a parent or sibling, tell them what you are trying to break and let them know like, hey, I give you permission after 9 pm.

Kenna Millea [00:26:25]:
If you see me, you know, mousing around in the kitchen, with my phone attached to the charger, like, ask me, like, hey, is is that gonna help you get to where you wanna be going right now? Mhmm. Gently, charitably, but, like, remind me that you're my accountability buddy on this.

Pat Millea [00:26:41]:
Yep.

Kenna Millea [00:26:41]:
So making that bad craving attract unattractive. Sorry. And then the third is to really make it hard to respond when we're thinking about that response. So, that may be something like actually powering down the phone, which I know is, like, such a foreign concept to us in this day and age. It really wasn't long ago. Like, we used to power our phones down every night. We were crazy not to. But nowadays, everyone is just perpetual on.

Pat Millea [00:27:08]:
It's one of my favorite questions to ask, like, high school, college students. When is the last time your phone was off? Yes. It's powered off. And they'll have to think it'd be like, I mean, I got it in 2022. So probably then when it came in the mail.

Kenna Millea [00:27:23]:
I am not gonna lie. Until recently, I didn't know how to power my phone off. My phone would, like, power down because it was out of battery or, like, got overheated. Yep. But it was never of my own volition. Like, I never actually chose to power down my phone until recently when I was, like, I've got to get a handle on my own self control, like, around my phone. So you taught me how to power down my phone, which is great. Thank you for that.

Pat Millea [00:27:46]:
You're welcome.

Kenna Millea [00:27:48]:
So so making a hard response, so could be turning off the phone entirely so that you're not hearing it buzz, you know, even from the other room. Again, that's a cue. Right? So so that could heighten our system and make it harder to resist, following through on this on this, you know, bad habit. And then finally, when it comes to the reward, we want to make it unsatisfying. We want to make it as unsatisfying as possible. So things that I think about that work really well for me, is that, my charger, while we both do this now, Pat, but like my charger is in the kitchen now. And if I like last night, I accidentally had my phone in my bag and my bag came upstairs with me. And this morning, my phone was like on low battery, which is super annoying, because I want it juiced and ready to go for like a full day of work.

Kenna Millea [00:28:34]:
So like making it unsatisfying to not follow through. Like, I am for sure as heck, gonna remember tonight, like, to put my phone downstairs and to charge it. So following that cycle, whether we're trying to make or break, looking at these 4 quadrants, which, again, we've posted on the show notes, can be so key in going where what's my downfall? Like, what element of this might I not be thinking through, really yeah, clearly thoughtfully, that could increase the chance that I could make or break this habit.

Pat Millea [00:29:05]:
I love how how simply you laid that out how kind of logical that is these 4 steps one one side for, creating and solidifying a good habit, one side for destroying and eliminating a bad habit. And I I think it is helpful for us too as people of faith to clarify that some of these habits that we want to create or destroy are genuinely moral good or evil habits, right? Like you and I have a couple episodes on my journey, our journey through pornography and the way that that became habitual for a long time and and having to get out of that habit in a very specific very targeted way. So some of these things do involve actual sins that it's our moral duty it's it's our invitation and our obligation to break as Catholics and to create virtuous holy habits as well. Really good morally holy habits. So creating habits of prayer and worship, creating habits of of great authentic and loving friendship. There are all kinds of good habits that we need to create as we destroy the evil ones. It's not just about eliminating sin and kind of coasting.

Pat Millea [00:30:15]:
It's about destroying the bad evil sinful habits to create good virtuous ones, right? But there are some habits out there that the habits themselves are not sinful, but they will lead us in the direction of Jesus or away from him. Right? Yeah. So I'm thinking through and some I mean, I think of habits even that stack upon each other. Right? I can't tell you how many folks when when we were in college, college students that I've worked with over the years who have who have talked about the bad habit of, staying up too late of not going to bed when I know I should leads to the bad habit of drinking more than I should or smoking more than I should at odd hours of the night and that inevitably will lead to the bad habit of texting that one ex that I know I should not be in communication with anymore and who knows what kind of bad situations might come from that, right? That that these are all bad habits that kind of stack upon each other at a certain point and and giving into the first bad habit might create cues for the other ones down the road that follow. So it it can be a really helpful thing to just look at that kind of analytically almost. And you know if you're an engineer type, God bless you. Good for you. I am not.

Pat Millea [00:31:31]:
But maybe it's a matter of looking at at the past month or so and saying like, okay, whenever I did this one particular thing, this bad habit that I don't want to do, what happened that in the day leading up to that what what were the triggers what were the cues what were the the even just seemingly unrelated coincidences that happened leading up to that and and is it possible that some of those are cues actually Is it possible that whenever I listen to this song it makes me think of this kind of poor boundary to relationship I have and it gets me in a place of anger or resentment or unforgiveness, right? So how can I really look at my life and look analytically ask for the grace of God to see with the eyes of wisdom and understanding? And how can I approach my life in a way that helps me to, again, live on the good side of the habits and eliminate the bad ones?

Kenna Millea [00:32:24]:
Yeah. Yeah. No, definitely. And I think too, to to be able, to consider, like, is there a, linchpin habit that could set good habits off in motion? So for example, for me, it's about going to bed on time. And Pat, you know, I turn into a pumpkin, a crabby pumpkin if I do not go to bed on time because it's not only about that moment of like, Oh, I'm not, I'm not living into this habit that I want of being in bed at 10. But it's the domino effect of how much harder it is to get up in the morning, which makes it harder to pray, harder to work out, harder to be not in such a rush, therefore, crabby with my children. Like, just there's so much that can be linked. And so considering, like, what might be that initial habit that could help actually make a lot of other great habits easier to attain and easier to sustain.

Pat Millea [00:33:17]:
Mhmm.

Kenna Millea [00:33:17]:
So, yeah, I think those are really good things to consider. That's great. I also think that it's important to say, you know, with my clients, it's it's so common. Right? Like, especially when a new client is coming in. They are just on fire. Right? The iron is hot. They are striking. I'm excited for them.

Kenna Millea [00:33:33]:
Like, they've made the call. They want to make a move and they have all these ideas of all these things they want to change. They want to get their bodies moving. They want to be in a different eating plan. They want to be speaking to their children in a different way. They want to be dating their spouse again and really living into their marriage. They want to be showing up as a better colleague and coworker at work. All these beautiful things.

Kenna Millea [00:33:52]:
And so, they want to try 8 things at once. Yeah. And they look at me like I'm crazy or like they're not getting their minds worth when I say, can we pick one thing? Can we start with one thing? Because the reality is the the momentum that can build and grow from choosing one habit to focus on and really knocking it out of the park, and having a sense of confidence, having a sense of, like, I can do this. I do have the virtue. God is providing the grace. I can do this. Starting with one habit and letting that not only build and grow, but also reveal what might need to be the next thing that I make break in terms of habit formation. That's hard.

Kenna Millea [00:34:37]:
It's hard to pump the brakes on someone who's on fire, who's excited. Maybe that's you listening right now. You're like, let's go. And and here I am like Debbie Downer, like, just wait a second. Just hold on.

Pat Millea [00:34:48]:
Don't change your whole life today. Hold on. Yes.

Kenna Millea [00:34:52]:
Because it can be so defeating to be having many, many, many things. Right? Like, the Lent phenomenon is probably one that we are all familiar with that describes this. Right? Like, you have 8 different prayer things that you wanna do, 7 different fasting things that you wanna do, all these penances, like, and on day 4, you're like, I am the worst Catholic ever because I cannot keep these things up. And and, you know, by the end week 5 of Lent, you know, you're down to, like, those 2 core things that you're like, actually, this is really good. Like, this is actually really mean.

Pat Millea [00:35:20]:
Which is probably the the only 2 things you should have started with at the beginning. Right?

Kenna Millea [00:35:23]:
Right. But but but we have such big high hopes. Right? And we're on fire.

Pat Millea [00:35:27]:
We're like, this

Kenna Millea [00:35:27]:
is gonna be a season of changing.

Pat Millea [00:35:29]:
Heroic holiness starts today. Yeah. Right.

Kenna Millea [00:35:31]:
Right. So to to say here, like, I promise you, you can always go up or you can always build, you can always increase. I remind clients like you're going to fall off. Like you're going to miss. I know for me, it's so hard to keep up my habits when I'm in a different setting, like when we go on a vacation or something. It's disorienting. And so there's kind of a recalibration when you come home. So just to normalize that stuff, especially coming out of, you know, maybe Christmas break.

Kenna Millea [00:36:03]:
If you're in a different, yeah, different setting, different schedule, you're kind of, marching to the beat of someone else's drum. If you're being hosted in their home, in their rhythm of life, like, that is normal. It's understandable. Mhmm. I think just seeing yourself start with something small and then going, like, I do know this process. I do know how to to think this through. How to identify my cues, how to identify my cravings, my responses, and my rewards. Like, that process is really valuable.

Pat Millea [00:36:31]:
Yeah. Self knowledge for the sake of self gift. Yeah.

Kenna Millea [00:36:34]:
Yeah. And and I think too, like, you mentioned, Pat, but I wanna underscore it again. These little technologies, quote, quote, technologies. Peter Kreeft talks about technology is something that makes life easier. Right? I am a huge fan of these small technologies, post it notes. I believe in the 3 post it note rule, write it down on 3 post it notes and put it in 3 prominent places, usually your bathroom mirror, your computer, and your car. So whatever it is that you're working on, whatever that reward maybe is that you're looking for to be satisfied, write that down. Mhmm.

Kenna Millea [00:37:04]:
So post it notes are one type of technology. Another one is phone alarms. I will, you know, rag on technology all day long, but you know, Pat, my phone bing bongs all day long.

Pat Millea [00:37:15]:
You use your phone for nothing more than alarms.

Kenna Millea [00:37:18]:
My phone only existed for alarms and maybe some time.

Pat Millea [00:37:22]:
It's about 17 a day.

Kenna Millea [00:37:24]:
But they're so helpful. They're so helpful. And in time I don't need them as much, but in the beginning, heck yeah. Like I need that reminder. I need that external cue to help me know what I'm supposed to be up to right now. So I'd say post it notes. And then the third, I post it notes and alarms on your phone. And then the third is an accountability buddy.

Kenna Millea [00:37:44]:
And not that that person has to be trying to do this same thing with you. But just someone that you can check-in with someone who can celebrate the wins with you, someone who can encourage you when it feels discouraging or when you feel like you've had a setback. But just someone who's gonna be in your corner and who sees how good this is for you, to help keep you accountable.

Pat Millea [00:38:05]:
And and if I can be the resident sanguine for one moment before we, wrap up here, Maybe there is a really good opportunity to create a reward that makes a good habit really worth it. I'm thinking of a a person that I knew years ago who was trying to get into the habit of going to Sunday Mass every single Sunday, that he wasn't in the habit, he knew that he should be. He'd been putting it off for long enough. And he knew that as dumb as it sounds or maybe not dumb, maybe as silly as it sounds, if he got a donut after Mass every single Sunday that that would be just one little extra bonus reward to getting out of bed not watching NFL live first thing in the morning on Sunday going to Mass and then celebrating the glory of the Eucharist with a doughnut after Mass as well. The Eucharist is the real reward.

Kenna Millea [00:38:54]:
Is that person you?

Pat Millea [00:38:55]:
No. That person is not me. Thank you very much. Although we may have a lot of things in common, that is not me. No. So whatever it is, like, if you're trying to develop a routine of prayer, if you're trying to develop a routine of spending really quality like face to face time with friends and living on a deeper level with the people that you're close to, if you're trying to build a routine of being more active and and going for walks or exercising or eating better, what are what are rewards that you can create to make that habit all the more attractive?

Kenna Millea [00:39:28]:
Yeah. Definitely.

Pat Millea [00:39:28]:
And if you're looking for reward ideas, I'm your guy.

Kenna Millea [00:39:31]:
So shoot us a message. Yeah.

Pat Millea [00:39:33]:
I will create. I will come up with a reward structure for you, friend.

Kenna Millea [00:39:37]:
You've got your hypotheticals and he will. Yeah, absolutely. So, so I want to say one more thing before we get into our challenge by choice, which is how we wrap up our sessions. And it's a quote from, clear in the Atomic Habit. And he says, what you crave is not the habit itself, but the change in state it delivers. And I think this makes sense because so many of my clients will, you know, talk about this desire to be different, right? To, to speak, to not gossip, let's say to speak differently, to not yell at others out of anger and rage. And then we actually start talking about what it would take to get there. And they're like, well, that sounds terrible.

Kenna Millea [00:40:17]:
That sounds gross. That doesn't sound fun. Like, you know, they they kind of get turned off by that. And I'm like, we got to keep our eyes focused on the change in state. And for us as people of faith, the change in state we're talking about is conversion. The change in state we're talking about is letting our lives, our hearts, our habits more perfectly, more clearly reflect Jesus's heart, his life, and and his orientation to the good and the true and the beautiful. So, you know, really when we're thinking that through and you start backpedaling like, well, they don't really wanna, and and it starts turning you off, Focus again on what's that change in state. What's that ultimate reward for us? It's relationship with the Lord.

Kenna Millea [00:40:58]:
It's intimacy with him. It's it's really at the end of a day at the end of a life knowing believing that he will look upon us and say like well done good and faithful servant. Like, that is what we're looking for. So keep our eyes on that prize. Like, we, as people of faith, have that advantage. It's not just about this world. We're talking about things that have eternal ramifications. And that's good news.

Kenna Millea [00:41:19]:
That's great news.

Pat Millea [00:41:19]:
Great news. Absolutely. Yeah.

Kenna Millea [00:41:21]:
So so let's talk about this challenge by choice. So at the end of each episode, we we make this actionable. We say like, okay, this is good stuff, but what's a first next step.

Pat Millea [00:41:30]:
Right.

Kenna Millea [00:41:31]:
And so in this one, I would ask listeners, to consider, how am I doing in my this station of life, right, my vocation life, maybe as a student, maybe as an employee, maybe as a housemate, as a spouse, as a as a daughter, a son. Wherever you're at, how am I doing, and what is one thing that's standing in the way of an even more generous self gift of myself? What's something that's standing in the way of that? Looking at that and considering what what would help me? What habit either making 1 or breaking 1? What habit would support me showing up even more generously, even more joyfully and freely in my vocation in this season of life and beginning there to identify your habit?

Pat Millea [00:42:24]:
Beautiful. That's a great starting place. Man, I'm excited. Should we pray for all all of our friends listening to this so that we can build better habits?

Kenna Millea [00:42:31]:
Absolutely.

Pat Millea [00:42:32]:
Let's do it. Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, amen. Heavenly Father, we praise you, we adore you, and we thank you for the the grace of this moment, for the grace of our lives, and for the grace of your presence with us. Lord, we know that you, created us out of love, that you call us to love, and to live lives of love for you and for those around us. And we also know, Lord, that we live in a fallen world, that we ourselves are marked by sin and weakness, and that there are all kinds of ways that our lives do not reflect your will and your call for us. So we pray, Lord, for for the courage, for the the wisdom, and, for the grace to develop the kinds of habits that will help us to be an image of you in the world and to move away from the habits that keep us from you and from the path that you've laid out before us. Lord, please bless us. Bless all those who are listening to these words.

Pat Millea [00:43:39]:
May they receive your grace, and may they have the courage to move towards you with the kind of focus and dedication that you desire for us. And we ask all this, Jesus, in your name. Amen. Amen.

Pat Millea [00:43:53]:
In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen. Well, friends, if you're listening to this, you may be hearing it in the fall of 2024. And if that is the case and you are a college student, I can't encourage you enough to go to SEEK. There are kind of two different SEEK options this year. There's a conference in Salt Lake City, January 1st through 5th of 2025. There's a second conference, identical conference in Washington, DC on the east side, January 2nd through 5th. So you can go to SEEK the theme this year is Follow Me.

Pat Millea [00:44:26]:
Just an amazing opportunity to be together with other college students, other young adults with great speakers, great worship, great prayer, great breakouts. It's it's been really life changing from a lot of former high schoolers, young adults that that I've known throughout my ministry years. So if you're a college student, make the time to find a way to get to Salt Lake City or DC. If you have a college student in your life, if you have a sibling, a a child, a grandchild, do what you can to help them get there. I promise you it'll help them make some really really great habits.

Kenna Millea [00:44:57]:
Sweet. I hope to make it to SEEK someday. I've heard amazing things. So yeah. Well, until next time, my love. Thank you again for another wonderful conversation. And to all of you listening, thanks for being with us. If you are new to This Whole Life, we invite you to stay along for the ride.

Kenna Millea [00:45:15]:
Subscribe to This Whole Life podcast on your player of choice. Join us. Follow us on Instagram, This Whole Life Podcast, and on Facebook. And feel free to drop us a line about what habits you are crushing these days at thiswholelifepodcast.com. And until next time, God bless you. This Whole Life is a production of the Martin Center For Integration. Visit us online at thiswholelifepodcast.com. Please don't put that on the bloopers.

Pat Millea [00:46:02]:
Outtake. I will not do that one. That one is not right.