Ep72 Benefit of the Doubt: Positive Sentiment Override

"Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things."
~ 1 Corinthians 13:7

Why do I get so hurt by others' actions?
Why is it so hard for me to let things slide?
How can I give people close to me the benefit of the doubt?

In episode 72 of This Whole Life, Kenna and Pat dive into the concept of Positive Sentiment Override, a game-changing mindset for building stronger, more joyful relationships. Kicking things off with some spirited candy rankings for the Easter season, the duo opens with laughter before turning to the more serious - but deeply practical - work of cultivating a positive lens in daily interactions with loved ones. Together, they break down Dr. John Gottman’s research on how seeing the best in others impacts not only our relationships but our own mental health. Together, they share real-life scenarios of how our internal narratives can shape the atmosphere in our homes, grounded in both faith and psychology. Whether you’re looking for ways to make your domestic church into a greater sanctuary or wanting to shake off negativity in your marriage, family, or friendships, this episode is packed with relatable stories, actionable takeaways, and faith-filled encouragement.

Episode 72 Show Notes

Chapters:

0:00: Introduction, Candy Rankings, and Highs & Hards
18:09: What is Positive Sentiment Override?
27:40: What if they're truly doing something wrong?
32:28: How do I know I'm in Negative Sentiment Override?
43:39: Practical situations
50:56: Challenge By Choice

Reflection Questions:

1. What is one specific thing that stuck with you from this conversation?
2. When have you enjoyed positive sentiment override with others? When have you been stuck in negative sentiment override?
3. How do you know when you're in a negative space with a loved one? What are the signs?
4. How do you break out of negative sentiment override and think more positively of your loved ones?
5. Why is it so hard to give the people closest to us the benefit of the doubt? What can you do to extend that grace to them?

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction, Candy Rankings, and Highs & Hards
• 18:09 What is Positive Sentiment Override?
• 27:40 What if they're truly doing something wrong?
• 32:28 How do I know I'm in Negative Sentiment Override?
• 43:39 Practical situations
• 50:56 Challenge By Choice

Transcript

Kenna Millea [00:00:00]:
Can our homes be places of sanctuary? Right? When we think about the domestic Church, are we thinking about creating a place where my wounded son, daughter, spouse comes back and this is a safe haven where they are reminded of their goodness.

Pat Millea [00:00:26]:
Welcome to This Whole Life, a podcast for all of us seeking sanity and sanctity, and a place to find joy and meaning through the integration of faith and mental health. I'm Pat Millea, a Catholic speaker, musician, and leader, and I'm here with my bride, Kenna, a licensed marriage and family therapist. This is the stuff she and I talk about all the time, doing dishes in the car on a date. We're excited to bring you this podcast for educational purposes. It's not therapy or a substitute for mental health care. So come on in. Have a seat at our dining room table and join the conversation with us. We are so glad you're here.

Kenna Millea [00:01:04]:
Welcome back to This Whole Life. It is another awesome episode that we are excited to share with you listeners. Thank you so much for joining us again. Thank you, dear husband, in your less than 100% state Hello. For joining us. And today, my special guest is

Pat Millea [00:01:34]:
It won't be that bad

Kenna Millea [00:01:35]:
Barry white. It might be that bad. Oh my gosh. Because you are fighting something, my friend.

Pat Millea [00:01:41]:
It's It's no fun. I feel better than I did yesterday, but my voice would not, indicate that. So I apologize in advance if you're listening right now and you can't stand it. Yes. I'm gonna talk as little as possible which actually works really well for this episode because

Kenna Millea [00:01:54]:
It does.

Pat Millea [00:01:55]:
You are the expert and I am happy to sit at your feet so quietly.

Kenna Millea [00:02:00]:
For those who are new to the podcast, Pat does not normally speak like this. For long time listeners, you know that Pat does not normally sound like this. So please come back and visit us another time.

Pat Millea [00:02:09]:
Yes. Indeed.

Kenna Millea [00:02:10]:
But we're gonna have really, really great stuff today for our relationships as we enter into this Easter season. Mhmm. So we did not want to delay recording this even though some horrible malady has attacked your throat. St. Blaise, pray for us.

Pat Millea [00:02:26]:
We can wait no longer. That's right. First of all, before we get to a game, just a huge, huge thank you to all of you who have supported This Whole Life in our Lenten kickoff support community. We have officially met our Lenten goal.

Kenna Millea [00:02:40]:
We've exceeded we've officially exceeded our goal.

Pat Millea [00:02:42]:
Exceeded our Lenten goal for 2025. All of you alms givers out there, you have outdone yourselves. And I I genuinely, truthfully can't tell you how grateful we are, for your support of this podcast, of the work that we do, of listening and sharing and helping this great information, these great resources to reach as many as many people as possible. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Kenna Millea [00:03:03]:
And if you could see Pat's office right now, it is a jungle of of boxes of equipment of things that I have, like, warned my children. Like, if you rattle that box too much, you will not eat tonight. Like, just knowing that we have all this precious recording equipment that has come in thanks to your support. And so that support can continue. It was a kickoff in Lent, and we would love, love, love, to to, yeah, have you along the along for the ride with us

Pat Millea [00:03:33]:
Yep.

Kenna Millea [00:03:34]:
As we continue to support This Whole Life.

Pat Millea [00:03:37]:
That's right. That's right. So let's have some fun on that note. If you don't mind Okay.

Kenna Millea [00:03:40]:
Are we not doing highs and hards? Are we doing a game instead?

Pat Millea [00:03:43]:
Oh. Let's do a game first and then highs

Pat Millea [00:03:44]:
and hards. How about that? Cool. So this episode is gonna be released in the Easter season of 2025. And as much as you love Lent, my dear, your boy, Pat Millea, loves Easter just as much, if not more. So here's what we're gonna do. Okay? For a little Easter themed, not so much a game, just a fun conversation.

Kenna Millea [00:04:02]:
Okay.

Pat Millea [00:04:03]:
I'm gonna show you 10 world famous candy bars. And if you're listening at home, I'm gonna talk through the list of 10. I need you and me to as quick as we can, rank them from 10 to one.

Kenna Millea [00:04:16]:
Okay.

Pat Millea [00:04:16]:
So we're each going to start with number 10.

Kenna Millea [00:04:18]:
Okay.

Pat Millea [00:04:18]:
We're going to work our way up to number one and we're going to see what the final rankings are. Okay?

Kenna Millea [00:04:22]:
Okay.

Pat Millea [00:04:23]:
So the 10 candies on the list of ultimate Easter rankings.

Kenna Millea [00:04:29]:
This is gonna be on the show notes as well.

Pat Millea [00:04:31]:
This will be on the show notes as well. That's right. Mhmm. That's right. Skittles, regular M and M's, peanut M and M's, Whoppers. Yeah. What's that? Cadbury Creme eggs.

Kenna Millea [00:04:43]:
Oh, gosh.

Pat Millea [00:04:44]:
Starburst, Swedish Fish, Kit Kat k. Snickers

Kenna Millea [00:04:51]:
k.

Pat Millea [00:04:51]:
And Reese's peanut butter cups. Oh my gosh.

Kenna Millea [00:04:53]:
This is gonna be trippy. I already Are you ready? Are you ready?

Pat Millea [00:04:56]:
I'm ready. Ladies first, what's your what's your number 10? What's the last?

Kenna Millea [00:04:59]:
Cadbury eggs. Come in. Disgusting. Oh, boy. What is that in the middle? That goopy, messy, drippy it makes my teeth hurt to think about it. Okay.

Pat Millea [00:05:09]:
Minor spoiler alert, you're gonna have to wait a while to hear a Cadbury eggs come out of my mouth. Okay.

Kenna Millea [00:05:13]:
What's your number 10?

Pat Millea [00:05:14]:
Number 10, Whoppers by a mile.

Kenna Millea [00:05:16]:
Yeah. I knew that was coming.

Pat Millea [00:05:17]:
They why would you put chocolate around chalk and feed it to people? No. You call it candy.

Kenna Millea [00:05:23]:
You have such a campaign against malt.

Pat Millea [00:05:25]:
Disgust they are an abomination. They are if you told me that that's what Adam and Eve ate in the garden to bring sin into the world, I would have said feels about right. Yep. They are terrible. Okay. Number nine?

Kenna Millea [00:05:37]:
Number nine, Reese's peanut butter cups.

Pat Millea [00:05:38]:
Oh my gosh.

Kenna Millea [00:05:40]:
Again, with the fake, it's just not real. I can taste it.

Pat Millea [00:05:45]:
Can I can I just be upfront with you and tell you that whatever your number one and two on this list are, they're not gonna be organic farm to table? Okay? So I get it. You think it's fake?

Kenna Millea [00:05:57]:
But, like, the texture, like, it's, like, just so granular like the sugar like they didn't like melt it enough. I don't know. Okay. What's your number nine?

Pat Millea [00:06:04]:
I knew that ours would be different but that is really disappointing. Okay. My number nine is gonna be Swedish Fish. Mhmm. I know people love it.

Kenna Millea [00:06:14]:
That's why you're wrong.

Pat Millea [00:06:15]:
I totally don't understand it. They're tough. They're they're they're not even chewy. They're just tough.

Kenna Millea [00:06:20]:
I could go for some right now. There better be some in our Easter baskets.

Pat Millea [00:06:22]:
Oh, gross. Alright.

Kenna Millea [00:06:23]:
Hint hint. See what

Pat Millea [00:06:24]:
I can do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I hear you. Number eight, my love?

Kenna Millea [00:06:28]:
I think I'm gonna go regular M and M's. Oh. They're just basic. Hi. They're we've gone from, like, bad candy to just, like, take it or leave it. Like, I don't need those. If there are no other options and I have a hankering for, you know, some sweet. Alright.

Kenna Millea [00:06:43]:
Fine. But, yeah, regular M and M's. I mean, they just they're there as, like, a base for launching awesome M and M's, like pretzel M and M's.

Pat Millea [00:06:54]:
I'm borderline disappointed.

Kenna Millea [00:06:55]:
Which aren't on your list.

Pat Millea [00:06:56]:
That's fine.

Kenna Millea [00:06:56]:
You are certainly not borderline surprised by any means.

Pat Millea [00:06:59]:
Number okay. So number eight and seven are close for me. I'm gonna go with number eight is Starburst because half of them are just not good. Yeah.

Kenna Millea [00:07:13]:
Like, I mean oranges, you're on the fence about the orange. No?

Pat Millea [00:07:16]:
No. No.

Kenna Millea [00:07:17]:
No. You know they have a bag now that's just the reds and pinks.

Pat Millea [00:07:19]:
Correct. If you made that candy, top five candy for sure.

Kenna Millea [00:07:23]:
Okay.

Pat Millea [00:07:23]:
So that's why I know they have that.

Kenna Millea [00:07:24]:
Good to reality test there.

Pat Millea [00:07:25]:
I wanted to be as as kind of OG candy as possible here. Yes. Right? When half of the bag of candy is just not good, it can't be that good of a candy. The the pinks and reds elevate it. It would be 10 if not for the pinks and reds, but it's stuck at eight, unfortunately. Seven, my dear.

Kenna Millea [00:07:43]:
Seven. Okay. Now we're in tricky territory. I'm gonna go with Kit Kats Oh. Because the texture is not satisfying. They're they're they're like they they well, they are wafers. That's literally the definition. They're like chocolate

Pat Millea [00:07:59]:
Like wafers. You're right.

Kenna Millea [00:08:00]:
And they just, like, evaporate in your mouth. And I want I want a candy I can sink my teeth into.

Pat Millea [00:08:06]:
They do evaporate. K. Into deliciousness. Number seven. This was the the toss-up for me with number eight. Number seven, I'm gonna go Skittles. Skittles are also fine. If you are catching a theme

Kenna Millea [00:08:18]:
Yeah. The bias against the fruit.

Pat Millea [00:08:20]:
The fruit is all the way at the bottom.

Kenna Millea [00:08:22]:
It's The fruit and the malt are at the bottom.

Pat Millea [00:08:24]:
The Whoppers, I literally don't want. The Swedish fish, I probably don't want. The rest is, like, I'll eat it.

Kenna Millea [00:08:30]:
Yeah.

Pat Millea [00:08:30]:
But if there is chocolate available, why would I settle for something that is trying to be healthy?

Kenna Millea [00:08:36]:
You're getting passionate.

Pat Millea [00:08:37]:
I am. I have strong feelings about this.

Kenna Millea [00:08:38]:
Sounds like you're gonna cry. Like, any moment.

Pat Millea [00:08:41]:
Maybe I am that emotional. You don't know. Number six.

Kenna Millea [00:08:46]:
Okay. I think I'm gonna go, again, these are all things that I would happily receive. I'm gonna go peanut M and M's

Pat Millea [00:08:54]:
k.

Kenna Millea [00:08:54]:
Because they're just on the brink of, like yeah. If there are other things, I'm gonna choose it ahead. Okay. Peanut M and M's.

Pat Millea [00:09:00]:
Alright. Fair enough.

Kenna Millea [00:09:01]:
Et tu?

Pat Millea [00:09:02]:
This is why you and I work so well together as a complimentary

Kenna Millea [00:09:05]:
It's true.

Pat Millea [00:09:06]:
Romantic relationship is I get all the stuff you don't want.

Kenna Millea [00:09:09]:
We share an Easter basket.

Pat Millea [00:09:09]:
It's great. Even the Skittles. I'll take the reds and pinks. You take the yellow and orange. It's great.

Kenna Millea [00:09:14]:
And the green Sorry.

Pat Millea [00:09:15]:
Start with the green

Kenna Millea [00:09:16]:
The green Skittles. The green Skittles.

Pat Millea [00:09:17]:
Yeah. Alright. Number six. This is where it gets tricky.

Kenna Millea [00:09:21]:
Okay.

Pat Millea [00:09:22]:
Because there's only chocolate left. The least awesome thing left is Kit Kats. Yeah. They're great. But the But not really apparently. The other five. Yeah. It's just it's it's an unfair competition.

Pat Millea [00:09:35]:
They're they're they are captain of the JV squad. You know what I mean? They just can't quite crack the varsity roster. Number five. Top five for you.

Kenna Millea [00:09:44]:
I love that you're mixing your two favorite things, sports and sweets metaphors. Correct.

Pat Millea [00:09:48]:
Yes. Yep.

Kenna Millea [00:09:48]:
Okay. Top five. I'm trying to think what I have left. So I think I'm gonna go Snickers.

Pat Millea [00:09:53]:
K.

Kenna Millea [00:09:54]:
Mhmm. No. No. No. No. Yeah. Okay. Snickers.

Kenna Millea [00:09:56]:
Snickers. Excellent texture. I just they just don't last that long.

Pat Millea [00:10:02]:
They don't satisfy?

Kenna Millea [00:10:03]:
I'm not gonna I'm not gonna do you remember that campaign when they acted like Snickers bars were protein bars?

Pat Millea [00:10:07]:
They still do that.

Kenna Millea [00:10:08]:
Like, you should no.

Pat Millea [00:10:10]:
Protein? Oh, not protein bars I guess.

Kenna Millea [00:10:11]:
They would show, like, people working out and be, like, sitting on the bench, like, taking a Snickers break. That was a real thing. Yeah. There's peanuts. Okay. That was a real thing. Okay.

Kenna Millea [00:10:21]:
So Snickers, they just they go too fast. I cannot savor them. That's my only gripe with the Snicker. Oh, they've got all the elements. Maybe if the peanuts were a little saltier. Can I go with that?

Pat Millea [00:10:31]:
Oh, interesting. Okay.

Kenna Millea [00:10:32]:
But otherwise, I'm good. Number five for you.

Pat Millea [00:10:35]:
I'm a little annoyed at myself because I didn't scan the list as well as I should have. I I would have put Snickers at six and kicked out of five. Oh. Snickers.

Kenna Millea [00:10:43]:
That is surprising to me.

Pat Millea [00:10:44]:
So Snickers at five, they're they're fine. They're a great classic candy bar, but it's just fine.

Kenna Millea [00:10:49]:
Snickers ice cream better than the Snickers bar?

Pat Millea [00:10:52]:
By a mile. Okay. Like the frozen Snickers bars.

Kenna Millea [00:10:55]:
See again, too fast.

Pat Millea [00:10:56]:
Too quick. A mile.

Kenna Millea [00:10:57]:
Nope. Can't say it right.

Pat Millea [00:10:58]:
Oh, my gosh. I would have one Snickers ice cream bar over 10 regular Snickers bars if you offered me those two options.

Kenna Millea [00:11:06]:
I'm I'm stunned.

Pat Millea [00:11:07]:
It's so good. Okay. Man, alright. Number four?

Kenna Millea [00:11:10]:
Number four. Did I have I said peanut M and M's yet?

Pat Millea [00:11:14]:
You have, yes, said peanut M and M's and regular M and M's.

Kenna Millea [00:11:18]:
Okay.

Pat Millea [00:11:18]:
Here heretical territory.

Kenna Millea [00:11:20]:
Oh, okay. So then Whoppers.

Pat Millea [00:11:22]:
Ugh.

Kenna Millea [00:11:22]:
I do I will say for whatever reason, I don't think of Whoppers except at Easter. And I think it's those, like, Robin's egg, like, that's that candy. Yes. And it used to come or I think it still does come in that little like paper milk jug looking Yeah. Thing, little milk carton looking thing. And so I think I associate Whoppers with Easter and so particularly because we're talking about Easter right now.

Pat Millea [00:11:42]:
So disgusting. Okay.

Kenna Millea [00:11:44]:
We've already covered your disgusting. Disgusting. Now I'm preaching

Pat Millea [00:11:47]:
As good as our Easter baskets as kids and I would just mock and ridicule. It was terrible. Number four for me, I'm gonna go with oh, golly. It's so tough. These these next three are like on my Mount Rushmore of candy. Okay. Three out of four.

Kenna Millea [00:12:03]:
Hence why they're in the game.

Pat Millea [00:12:04]:
I'm gonna go Cadbury eggs number three.

Kenna Millea [00:12:09]:
I did not see that.

Pat Millea [00:12:10]:
They are elite. But they are There's not

Kenna Millea [00:12:13]:
a lot

Pat Millea [00:12:13]:
of space. Like a feast. Right? Like, I don't eat Cadbury eggs in August. Yeah. Just for fun.

Kenna Millea [00:12:18]:
That's true.

Pat Millea [00:12:19]:
I I would They were context. But I feel weird about that. Like, if you're eating Cadbury eggs in August, somebody walks by and is like, are you okay?

Kenna Millea [00:12:26]:
Yeah.

Pat Millea [00:12:26]:
What's what's going on in your life? You know?

Kenna Millea [00:12:28]:
How old is that thing? Yeah. Right. Because they don't sell those in the store fresh.

Pat Millea [00:12:30]:
The fact that they're, like, confined to this one, like, month of the year limits their potential a little bit, but they are they're elite. They're they're fantastic. Alright. Number two? No. Number three for you. I'm sorry.

Kenna Millea [00:12:42]:
Oh, man. Okay. I'm gonna go starburst. Here is how knit persnickety I'm getting right now because you have to unwrap them, which I know you can also get like they have like Starburst minis. Did you know this where they're not wrapped? And it's just you can just like like throw back a handful of Starburst which sounds like a terrible idea and a choking hazard and your dentist would be yeah your dentist would be so ticky.

Pat Millea [00:13:05]:
Attack. Yep.

Kenna Millea [00:13:06]:
So I'm just by by virtue of the fact that you've unwrapped them, I'm gonna go with that.

Pat Millea [00:13:11]:
That's hilarious. You're never lazy, but that's a funny take from you. Okay. I think I'm discounted. So number four, Cadbury eggs. I'm gonna stick with it. That's fine. Number three, Reese's peanut butter cups.

Pat Millea [00:13:22]:
Yeah. Again, just exceptional.

Kenna Millea [00:13:24]:
And I know you have feelings about the different shapes as well that they're superior, which because I would say the chocolate tastes different based on the shape.

Pat Millea [00:13:31]:
The the

Kenna Millea [00:13:32]:
Like the density the density of the chocolate. Right.

Pat Millea [00:13:34]:
Right. Chocolate to peanut butter is different. Right. The Christmas tree is different from the Easter egg, is different from

Kenna Millea [00:13:40]:
the normal size.

Pat Millea [00:13:41]:
The Halloween pumpkin. Peanut butter cup is different from the pumpkin, is different from the mini Reese's cups. They're all different, and they're all fantastic. Number two.

Kenna Millea [00:13:53]:
Swedish fish just because I only see one flavor there and I want a little variety with my fruits.

Pat Millea [00:14:00]:
K? K. Alright.

Kenna Millea [00:14:01]:
So Swedish fish, excellent texture, staying power, longevity. I mean, I could munch on a box of Swedish Fish for like a month.

Pat Millea [00:14:09]:
Oh, gross.

Kenna Millea [00:14:09]:
It would be yeah.

Pat Millea [00:14:10]:
What a terrible month.

Kenna Millea [00:14:11]:
And throw them in the freezer. They'll last even longer. Okay. So that's that. Two for you.

Pat Millea [00:14:15]:
So my final two are my

Kenna Millea [00:14:17]:
two my

Pat Millea [00:14:17]:
two best friends. Yeah. M and M's and peanut M and M's. They're brothers

Kenna Millea [00:14:21]:
Always friends.

Pat Millea [00:14:22]:
That I never want to turn down. I'm gonna go I will just tell you my number one is regular M and M's.

Kenna Millea [00:14:29]:
That is such a switch lately.

Pat Millea [00:14:31]:
It really is. And the peanut M and M's are right there. It's one and one a.

Kenna Millea [00:14:34]:
It used to be peanut M and M's.

Pat Millea [00:14:35]:
But it's just the the that slight little edge goes to that regular M and M's.

Kenna Millea [00:14:39]:
No.

Pat Millea [00:14:40]:
They are always good. They're never I'm I'm never not in the mood for regular M and M's on ice cream, in a handful, in a trail mix that On a car trip. On a car trip. Just At

Kenna Millea [00:14:50]:
sporting event.

Pat Millea [00:14:51]:
The greatest candy ever made. Yes.

Kenna Millea [00:14:53]:
Easy to share also.

Pat Millea [00:14:54]:
You're great.

Kenna Millea [00:14:54]:
So number one leaves me with Skittles.

Pat Millea [00:14:56]:
Skittles.

Kenna Millea [00:14:56]:
Taste the rainbow. Seriously. All of you. Number one. Enjoy that. Also, what's really funny is we, like, never have them. Maybe that's why they're my number one.

Pat Millea [00:15:04]:
I'm shocked by you right now.

Kenna Millea [00:15:05]:
We have we regularly have M and M's in the house. Certainly, in the holidays, we have, like, the Reese's family, Whoppers. Yeah. We never have Skittles. We are gonna have to solve that this Easter season.

Pat Millea [00:15:17]:
Man.

Kenna Millea [00:15:17]:
I don't know. Movie night with like, if you think about, like, buttery salty popcorn and then Skittles

Pat Millea [00:15:21]:
And M and M's. Yes.

Kenna Millea [00:15:23]:
No. Skittles. I have a little bit of beef that you have nothing of the coconut variety on here. No, like, Almond Joy Oh. Mounds bars. Like, that that would have put chocolate back in my top three.

Pat Millea [00:15:33]:
Would that be your honorable mention? Like, if you could add anything, you would add Yeah. Almond Joy, Mounds, something like that.

Kenna Millea [00:15:38]:
Let's go Almond Joy, not Mounds. Almond Joy. Again, I want the texture. I want the texture. The Mounds isn't enough. Your honorable mention is what?

Pat Millea [00:15:44]:
The coconut is really good. I I would go with, gosh, I can't even think. You know what candy bar I really like and I get that it's not really not good. There's nothing to it. Three Musketeers. Oh, I get it. They're really good.

Kenna Millea [00:15:57]:
Also frozen.

Pat Millea [00:15:58]:
Yes. Frozen as well. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mhmm. Dang. K.

Pat Millea [00:16:01]:
That was fun. Happy Easter, my love.

Kenna Millea [00:16:03]:
Now, I'm so hungry.

Pat Millea [00:16:04]:
Even if you're listening in December, happy Easter. It's all good. Go get yourself a Cadbury egg. Yeah.

Kenna Millea [00:16:08]:
If they're listening to December, they just fast forward through all that.

Pat Millea [00:16:11]:
Boy, do I have some positive sentiments right now. I'll tell you that. Alright.

Kenna Millea [00:16:15]:
Should we do highs and hards?

Pat Millea [00:16:16]:
Yes, please.

Kenna Millea [00:16:16]:
Let's go. I'll go first.

Pat Millea [00:16:17]:
You go.

Kenna Millea [00:16:18]:
So my one sentence hard has been feeling really exhausted lately for seemingly no obvious reasons. K.

Pat Millea [00:16:31]:
Pregnant?

Kenna Millea [00:16:32]:
One that is

Pat Millea [00:16:34]:
Just kidding.

Kenna Millea [00:16:35]:
Really funny to throw at me on air. K. That's more than a sentence.

Pat Millea [00:16:38]:
We'll cut that out. That's fine.

Kenna Millea [00:16:41]:
Blooper territory there. My one sentence high, is April is a time of birthdays, and I love just reflecting on our kids' lives and how much I delight in them and how good God is for giving them to us. So there is your run on sentence, a la Saint Paul.

Pat Millea [00:17:05]:
Very good. Nice. Yeah. If you could say it in Greek next time, I'd really appreciate it. My hard is that I am sick. And I don't like being sick because it's uncomfortable. It's uncomfortable that you let for you to listen to right now. It's It's uncomfortable for you, my bride, to have to pick up some of the slack when I am in bed by 8:00 at night, and I don't like it.

Pat Millea [00:17:24]:
My high is that, let's go with this. I recently, maybe a few weeks ago, finished a book that our daughter has read numerous times already and I think you should read and you would love someday. It's a book called A Gentleman in Moscow and it is such a delightful little book. It is fictional. It's set in, post Bolshevik revolution Russia and it is so sweet and smart and clever and, emotional and not violent or stressful, it's like right up your alley. It's such a good book. It's great. Highly recommend.

Kenna Millea [00:17:59]:
Let's put that in the show notes.

Pat Millea [00:18:00]:
Yes, you do.

Kenna Millea [00:18:00]:
That was like 18 sentences by the way.

Pat Millea [00:18:02]:
That was not. That was one sentence with a lot of commas. Okay. So now, my beautiful bride, in this Easter release date, let's get positive. Okay? We are gonna talk today about positive sentiment override. And and if you're listening and thinking to yourself what in the name of sweet Peter is that you are in good company because that is therapist talk and I would like to invite you our therapist friend to explain what in the world that is and what we're talking about and why it matters.

Kenna Millea [00:18:34]:
Okay. So positive sentiment override is a phrase coined by Doctor John Gottman who we regularly glean from his research, from his longitudinal research, and from his writing from his practice in his therapy along with his wife, Doctor Julie Gottman. In essence, positive sentiment override is having a mindset of holding the other in a positive light. It's living in a space of giving the other the benefit of the doubt and assuming the best in them. Right? So it's not just a singular instance but it's really having your feet firmly planted in this territory of I am going to assume the best in you, I'm going to look for the best in you as things come up. So when I'm talking about it with clients and it's, you know, certainly, I'm doing this with my couples. I'm teaching couples. I'm teaching parents of teens and parents of kids.

Kenna Millea [00:19:29]:
You know, it's amazing and we can do this too. How we attribute negative negative sentiment override, its, its counterpart to, like, a two year old. Like, I know he's just being manipulative. You know, I know he's just crying in his crib because he's being manipulative. Like like, do we realize that that we have control over the story that we hold and that it colors everything going forward? It's not just that moment that you're talking about. You are building up a story for yourself. What is that story? That's what this episode is about today. Really being honest, getting real about the impact that the story we hold has not just for the space between us and the people we love and the people we interact with, but also for our own mental health.

Kenna Millea [00:20:11]:
There there is so much research out there that says and I don't want to get like too like woo woo about, you know, yeah, living in a land of semantics or what have you, but like it is real that that what we carry in terms of stress or what we carry in terms of a hyper vigilance of, like, looking out for the next person that's, you know, gonna screw us over or something along those lines, like, that weighs on us. That creates a sense of anxious or depressed mood and tone inside of us that that has an effect on us, that hurts us personally. And so it behooves us to be invested in considering what is my sentiment override? Is it positive? Is it negative? How can I be more steady and stable in this positive light? So that that lens through which we look at others that we view our situations like that's what we're talking about today.

Pat Millea [00:21:03]:
Nice. And then Yeah. You know, I I'm imagining I I I know for a fact that at the beginning of a relationship, positive sentiment override is automatic and easy. It's great. Everything is wonderful. If you are five minutes late for a date, it's the cutest thing ever.

Kenna Millea [00:21:17]:
I'm worried about you. Right? I'm like I'm like, oh, my gosh. You're oh, I'm so glad to see you. What happened?

Pat Millea [00:21:21]:
Yes. Oh, my dear. Oh, yes.

Kenna Millea [00:21:23]:
All I cared about was your safety. And then now, zoom ahead for us, you know, seventeen, eighteen, whatever, going on nineteen years later

Pat Millea [00:21:30]:
Right. Right.

Kenna Millea [00:21:30]:
We're like, could have texted

Pat Millea [00:21:32]:
Ten years into a marriage. Right?

Kenna Millea [00:21:33]:
Would have appreciated a little heads up. Would have taken my own time crossing the street.

Pat Millea [00:21:38]:
Oh, did you run into unsuspected traffic at 5:30 in the afternoon? Yeah. Did that catch you off guard? Really? What a shame. You know? So it it's natural that it becomes more difficult or takes more effort Right. To live in positive sentiment override as a relationship matures.

Kenna Millea [00:21:56]:
There's history. There's emotional stuff, right, that we bring in of the wounds that have happened over the course of a long relationship. There's just the daily grind, you know, that that wears on both of you. But the bottom line is we need to be aware of how much control we have over this this lens that we are looking through. You know, that saying like when you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail. When you are looking to be disappointed by your spouse, by your kid, by your boss, by your colleague, by your parent, by your sibling, when you are looking for them to have selfish intent or, yeah, to be unconcerned with your well-being, you'll find it. You'll find it. Because you are in relationship with humans who are fallible, who are sinful, who do make mistakes, who do get worn out, who are not, you know, superheroes, Energizer Bunnies as you are demonstrating for us, Pat, and your vulnerability.

Kenna Millea [00:22:50]:
Like, yeah. Stuff happens. And can we let that roll off our backs? Can we let that be be a small thing? Can we let it be bite size? Or is the lens that we're looking through gonna magnify that and and make it bigger?

Pat Millea [00:23:05]:
So So is you know, this is obviously a very psychologically grounded principle. The the this podcast that we do is not just about psychology though. How is are there ways that positive sentiment override connects to what we do as people of faith with our relationship with God?

Kenna Millea [00:23:21]:
Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, I so here's my perspective. Right? Like, not to be Debbie Downer, but but to but for the sake of illustration and to create this contrast, can we all agree that the world we are living in is harsh? It is a it is a critical place. It is a place where we encounter disappointment, where we encounter people letting us down, betraying us even, where we get a lot of negative feedback about ourselves, through the media, through, yeah, through the culture, also in real ways, you know, through feedback from friends, colleagues, bosses, what have you, that if that is what goes on outside of of the walls of our home, can our homes be places of sanctuary? Right? When we think about the domestic church, are we thinking about creating a place where my wounded son, daughter, spouse comes back, and this is a safe haven where they are reminded of their goodness, where they are reminded of their value, their worth, their dignity, just by the way I make assumptions about them. You know, that when my kid forgets to do his chore and he's already in bed, that I'm muttering to myself, selfish 12 year old boy. You know, just or am I going, you know, I know he's been really working hard at the passion play at school, and he's on two baseball teams right now. He'll catch up on Saturday.

Kenna Millea [00:24:49]:
You know, when when you talk about how does this impact our faith, do we get to be the merciful presence of Christ to one another, or are we that condemning, judging, critical, evil voice, you know, that that already exists so prevalently in our life? Can our homes be places of safety and comfort and refuge that that those who live with us or in our workplaces, we could talk about it that way too, that that people seek it and are like, oh, I'm so glad to be here. Right? And and and here's the other thing, Maybe you are in the custom of writing beautiful, you know, greeting cards to your kids on their birthday, love letters to your spouse on Valentine's Day and your anniversary, you know, expressing your gratitude to your siblings, you know, on their birthdays, what have you, when you see them at family reunions. But in the day to day, as lovely as all of that is, if in the day to day, right, in the small interactions, you have this, again, this kind of critical perspective or this, you know, I I see your your malintent or your selfish motives there. What what is actually gonna pervade? Like, what what environment what is the person actually going to believe about themselves? That you see them as good? That might be hard. As lovely as your poetry is, you know, on on your spouse's anniversary, to think about, like, we actually have a lot of power in the day to day. Right? That's so much of what this whole life is about. It's it's about every day, we have these opportunities to choose to live lives that are more faithful to who God has made us to be. Mhmm.

Kenna Millea [00:26:28]:
And I think that taking on a positive sentiment override particularly to those who have been entrusted to us through our marriages, through our families, our coworkers in our workspaces, like, this is an important part of our call to discipleship.

Pat Millea [00:26:41]:
I was speaking with a to a group a few weeks ago and I can't even remember what the topic was or or why this came up but it was oh, it's something around the idea of identity with a group of high schoolers. And the way I put it to them is that one of the names that the evil one has in scripture is the accuser. Right? And I was talking about it for their purposes in terms of their own self image, the way that they look at themselves. And the way I proposed it is the devil's job is to accuse. Don't help him with his job. Don't don't self accuse. Don't self incriminate. By all means, examine your conscience, identify your sin, confess it so that you can be free of it, but then be free of it.

Pat Millea [00:27:18]:
Don't don't condemn yourself for things that have already been forgiven. Right? And I I think this principle seems to apply with this positive sentiment override as well, to look at somebody that I'm in relationship with and to not accuse, to

Pat Millea [00:27:31]:
live in a space where I'm giving the benefit of the doubt, where I'm accepting that I don't know what's going on inside their heart. I don't know why they might have done something. Where where I guess then is where is the space for, you know, I I know that you've talked about in sessions that you've had with clients. It's coming up in our come up in our own marriage when somebody just says, yeah, positive override is fine, but they're a jerk or they did objectively terrible things. Yeah. Where where is the space for

Kenna Millea [00:27:58]:
Yeah.

Pat Millea [00:27:58]:
identifying and acknowledging that they have done something for which there is no explanation and still to live in this kind of positive sentiment override?

Kenna Millea [00:28:06]:
Right. No. Absolutely. And I think I'm gonna hearken back to and I don't totally remember it right this moment. We'll put it in the show notes. But our episode on process versus content Mhmm. Because this, again, fits in that same bucket of, yes, if you have a grief, if you have a gripe, if you have a request for change, if something has objectively you know, yesterday, for example, a ball got dropped between something I asked you to do and to help our kids do and it didn't get done according to the way that I was asking. There's a difference between me being like, oh, man.

Kenna Millea [00:28:35]:
That's oh, that's tough. That's gonna make this next task a little more difficult for us. That is different than going, yeah, because you don't care what I have to say. He always does that. Right. You don't care what I have to say. Right? And and this is where you can see John Gottman, has has come up with these habits of of successful marriages because they connect with each other. Right? You can hear the horsemen are starting to come in, which we have episodes on each of the four horsemen.

Kenna Millea [00:28:59]:
But but to your point, Pat, there's a distinction between absolutely I get to still make my request, ask for something to be, you know, brought to to my spouse's attention or my child's attention of like, hey, buddy. When you went to bed last night and didn't get the dishes done, that that really put us in a lurch this morning. But you can already hear the difference of my tone if I'm even coming from that correction from a place of positive sentiment override. Right? There is no contempt. There is no sense of criticism of tearing him down, of making these general sweeping statements and absolutes. It's actually coming from this place of like, hey, man. I know that that you are good. I know that your heart is in the right place.

Kenna Millea [00:29:42]:
I know you desire to help our family. You're not trying to weasel your way out of your chores because you're selfish. I get that last night was kind of a crazy night. We were celebrating your sister's birthday and things got a little out of sorts and the routine got upset. But today, when you get home from school, I'm gonna need you to do that because, you know, the sink is getting backlogged Yeah. And I gotta cook dinner. So is is that helpful to make that distinction of that process and content?

Pat Millea [00:30:06]:
Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. That process and content is super helpful. And I know that you've again, you've talked in vague terms about, helping folks in couples therapy therapy before and in our marriage as well. The principle that if if two people who are in a relationship, whatever that relationship is, if they want to find things about the other person that are flawed or that they're doing wrong, you will always be able to find things.

Kenna Millea [00:30:31]:
Always.

Pat Millea [00:30:32]:
So someone in the marriage, in, you know, a brother sister relationship, good friends, if if you're looking for ammunition, just look around. We're all messed up and we're all broken so you will find all the ammo you need to fling at somebody. So at what point do you and I as mature human beings get to to take a right hand turn and say alright the ammunition is there These things have really frustrated me. But now what? What do I want to do with that? How do how can I get this relationship in a healthier direction?

Kenna Millea [00:31:00]:
And here's the thing is that it's contagious. That you yes, it is true. You may be the one in the system, right, in the relationship who takes that right hand turn and really makes a concerted effort to start seeing it as positive sentiment override, or seeing it through that lens of of positivity positivity and giving the benefit of the doubt. But I would put cold hard American dollars on the fact that the other in the system or the others in the system will follow suit because we we are drawn to that. We want that. That feels good. You know, I'll often talk with clients about, like, the difference between a prickly pineapple outside and the gushy, juicy, golden sweet inside. Like, we all want that that inside stuff.

Kenna Millea [00:31:44]:
And when you model that and you demonstrate that, others will follow suit. So particularly for parents, you know, who maybe are looking at their teenaged children who just seem to be a negative sentiment override all the time with each other, with you as the parent. Mhmm. Like, I want to challenge this isn't quite our challenge by choice, but I want to challenge. Yeah. Like, can you be the one to take that bold step first, that vulnerable risky step and just try it? It's it's not going to happen overnight, but try it and see if there isn't some shift in those around you to kind of model where you're at because it's attractive. Right? It draws you in and other people like, I want some of that.

Pat Millea [00:32:21]:
Mhmm.

Kenna Millea [00:32:22]:
And they are gonna pick up on the way that you're seeing, the way that you're perceiving, the way they're looking at that. Mhmm. So I think on that note, it could be helpful too to talk about, like, how do I know I'm in a place of negative sentiment?

Pat Millea [00:32:33]:
Yeah, let's get negative. Yeah.

Kenna Millea [00:32:34]:
So so it's pretty simple. Right? Again, we're talking about, like, what's that instinctual response? What's that, like, seemingly automatic, yeah, involuntary reaction? How are you coding the information that's coming in? Right? Your spouse forgets to to do something and what's that knee jerk reaction? When it is a place of assuming the worst of the other. Right? It's just it's the opposite of positive sentiment override, but assuming the worst of the other. When it is, looking for malicious intent. You know, I've definitely worked with individuals, with couples who they'll they'll tell me something that outwardly, I'm like, that's amazing. The marriage is making progress, so that relationship is making progress, or I love that your, you know, parent did that for you. And they're like, no. But I know what that's really about.

Kenna Millea [00:33:21]:
And I'm like, oh, gosh. Jeez. You know, that is a that is a sign that you are in a place of negative sentiment override, and that needs to be addressed. And no one can do that for you except for you. Right? If you are waiting for them to be perfect, if you are waiting for them to never mess up, you're gonna be here till the cows come home. But if you can take that first step of going, you know what? I'm gonna things that, you know, are violate a boundary, overstep that are irksome, I'm gonna address them objectively, clearly, behaviorally, and everything else, I'm just gonna give the benefit of the doubt. Like, you yourself are going to feel better. Even if their behavior doesn't change, you yourself are going to feel better

Pat Millea [00:33:59]:
Mhmm.

Kenna Millea [00:33:59]:
About things.

Pat Millea [00:34:00]:
Right.

Kenna Millea [00:34:01]:
One of the things that I think is so funny and is a sign that we humans are really drawn to being in positive sentiment override, like, we were made for that positive sentiment override is I don't know if you have this experience, Pat, because you never compared notes. But I know for me, like, I'll go on my my four day silent retreat every Lent. Yeah. And, you know, I'm like, oh my gosh. I'm so excited. I I get to, like, take off the mom hat and be away from, you you know, family life and just really, like, do my thing and be on my own and it's gonna be so wonderful. By the end of that first night, I am scrolling pictures and videos of our children and our family and I'm, you know, watching

Pat Millea [00:34:39]:
And your husband.

Kenna Millea [00:34:40]:
There of course. So many pictures of you, babe. But but I am I am looking at these things. I'm looking for I mean, truthfully for you, it's not so much pictures, but I really do. I go through the Rolodex of memories in my mind. I remember when I first laid eyes on you, like, really laid eyes on you. We've been friends, but I, like, really laid on you. Yep.

Kenna Millea [00:34:58]:
And and, like, remember that and remember how I felt, you know, our first conversations, our dates, like, when we got engaged. Like, I'd we do that. We are we want to be in this place of seeing the good of others. We need to intentionally be choosing that as well recognize that there's something that our our mind can can yeah make this intentional choice.

Pat Millea [00:35:16]:
Yeah. As somebody who still is not great at this all the time it has felt to me sometimes like it's just a little bit too simple. Right? That so if if I'm gonna have a better relationship, all I have to do is just think more positively about the person that I love and give them the benefit of the doubt. So number one, is it just that simple? And B, how do we move in that direction?

Kenna Millea [00:35:41]:
Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. So a few things. And again, we're talking about, you know, in relationships that are more long term that are deeper and have greater capacity for intimacy and and we have a greater desire for intimacy. So yes, it it is a piece of it is Pat, truly having this mindset, making this decision and saying I want to see the good in them. One of my favorite tricks and I think I've shared it here before is if I'm particularly struggling with someone and I find myself in a place of chronic negative sentiment override is my prayer that, you know, that day, that evening is, Lord, let me see them as you see them.

Kenna Millea [00:36:16]:
Because I trust that God continues to see their goodness even as they mess up, even as they sin in ways that I don't even know I don't even know about. Yeah. But that he sees their goodness. And so that has really helped me when I am deep in a hole of just you know, and just really only seeing how this person keeps screwing up.

Pat Millea [00:36:33]:
They can do no right. Yeah.

Kenna Millea [00:36:34]:
Yeah. Mhmm. So so that's one piece. Another thing I would say is to ask the question of, are are we loving each other in our love languages? Right? We have another episode dedicated to Gary Chapman's love languages, and I think that's really important, especially with people that we are in the day to day with, our spouse, our children, you know, our siblings if we're still at home, our roommates, are are we loving each other in that way? Are we filling up the tank? Are we making deposits into the account? I have so many metaphors for this. Yeah. Are we putting those deposits in? Because, yes, stuff is gonna happen that there are withdrawals. Right? And we don't wanna go into a place of overdrafting. Yeah.

Kenna Millea [00:37:14]:
We don't wanna be in the red. So are are we actively working on that together? And again, with a child, with a spouse, we wanna have those intentional conversations like, hey, babe, we haven't gone on a date night in a while, or we haven't gone on a walk around the block and gotten that quality time in that I know is so important to you. Or maybe I'm just gonna, you know, pick up a Snickers bar and a greeting card on the way home from the office.

Pat Millea [00:37:37]:
Ice cream Snickers. Thank you.

Kenna Millea [00:37:38]:
Right. Well, I'm not gonna put that in your work bag because that's where I was going with that. But, like, you know, a little surprise because your gift, you know, gift giving is your love language. Like, whatever that is. I I remember one time, Pat, I, yeah, was really in a place of negative sentiment override with you, and I was just kind of railing on you about all these little things. And you, praise God, must have been in a positive place because you had the ability to, like, number one, stay in your window of tolerance, which we should do an episode on that soon. Yep. But stay in your window of tolerance.

Kenna Millea [00:38:07]:
Right? Stay in your in your best true self. And you just said to me, hey. Do you think it's possible, Kenna, that I haven't been loving you through your love languages? Right? Like, I haven't been loving you in a way that you can comprehend, register, interpret

Pat Millea [00:38:20]:
Mhmm.

Kenna Millea [00:38:21]:
Because, wow, you you really have a lot of upset feelings toward me. Like, husband of the year award that you could, like, have that. Right? Like, anyone else would have been like, I'll fight fire with fire. You wanna you wanna tally all the ways that I've screwed up. I'll throw it right back at you, lady. Because that's true. That that exists. I'm not perfect either, and and I make lots of mistakes too.

Kenna Millea [00:38:40]:
So I would say love languages would be another way of, like, helping yourself get into this place of positive sentiment override. And then the final one that that is, you know, usually why people end up in my office, is because there are really big hurts. There are really big resentments. And Yeah. And actually what's holding you in this place of negative sentiment override is that that wound keeps getting pricked. Mhmm. That raw spot keeps getting pressed on that. That, wound never gets to heal.

Kenna Millea [00:39:09]:
It never gets to scab over and scar.

Pat Millea [00:39:11]:
Yeah.

Kenna Millea [00:39:11]:
And it just remains this, yeah, open, sensitivity

Pat Millea [00:39:16]:
Painful.

Kenna Millea [00:39:17]:
To yeah. Yeah. To to getting brushed up against by you. And so with that, I would say, you know, if you're noticing, like, wow, I'm really having trouble even imagining being in a place of positive sentiment override. Like, I really do just think that my spouse or my kid is just so self interested, is just, could give two toots about me. You may need to do some deeper healing work and you may need some support around that if the relationship isn't able to have a conversation, if the isn't able to receive you in being able to go, you know what? My bad. It's on me for holding on to this for so long, this resentment that has been festering and building up and is like gangrenous at this point.

Pat Millea [00:39:58]:
Yeah.

Kenna Millea [00:39:58]:
There's an image. But but I I need to come out with this because I see it's really holding me back from seeing your goodness and seeing your dignity and seeing your worth.

Pat Millea [00:40:07]:
Yeah.

Kenna Millea [00:40:07]:
I gotta own this so that we can solve this together and like digest this between us together.

Pat Millea [00:40:13]:
Yeah. Yeah. No that's that's been really true in my life for sure in in just coming to terms with the ways that when when when someone does something and my response to it is disproportionate That's a pretty good sign to me that I'm in this negative sentiment space. You know, when when somebody this this is never me because I don't typically go to bed before you. But if somebody if if the spouse goes to bed before me and night after night I have this like abandonment feeling that comes up right well I guess they just don't want to spend time with me I thought we were gonna be in a loving marriage but I guess this is just my life now is I am alone you know like well maybe that person goes to work three hours before you and it either way it requires and deserves a really good conversation to talk through not just the content but the feelings and the process of what's happening. But that's a really good indication to me too that I need to do some work in not just communicating it to the other person but really looking into why that is such a a disproportionate response internally for me too.

Kenna Millea [00:41:19]:
Well, and I appreciate where you're pointing at Pat because you're saying like, hey, might it be, an issue with the eyes that are looking through the lens? Might there be something I need to be accountable for and take responsibility for? And so that brings to mind this idea of, we call it personalizing. Right? But but taking things personally. So your spouse goes to bed before you and you make it about you. Right? That that's the Yeah. Basic definition of of personalizing is taking some some objective reality and twisting it and turning it and being like, oh, that must be because I am this. Whether it's I am this in their eyes or whether I am really this. Like I am really unworthy of their time or they're such a jerk they don't even wanna spend time with me. Right? Yeah.

Kenna Millea [00:42:02]:
So number one is, do you find that happening in more areas than just a relationship? That could be an indication that there's something for you to seek healing and repair and and some consideration of, like, how can I think differently? How can I look at this differently? That's maladaptive for me. That's not serving me and getting me where I want to be. The other piece that goes along with that, is, you know, especially if this is what's the what's the thing like, if there's critical feedback from one person, like, you let it simmer, two people, you start to ponder, three, you take it seriously. Like like, this idea that Yeah. If this if this negative sentiment override is kind of like, this is the way I look at everybody, the finger gets pointed not so much at them but at yourself. Right? Of like, what's going on in me that I am having trouble believing in people's goodness, in their Yeah. Good intent, that I am having trouble giving space, that that that there can't be a margin of error, you know, in in relationships, in the way we communicate with each other. Mhmm.

Kenna Millea [00:43:06]:
How might I be implicated as, like, part of the problem here that it's not just on them to figure this out? So so those would be a few things. Okay. So, you know, we've covered what is positive sentiment override, how can I cultivate that, what is negative sentiment override, what might be some action steps if I notice myself sliding into that territory Right? To get back out of it. And I think like anything especially when we're, you know, we call this psychoeducation, when we're teaching a skill, it can be helpful to apply it to very real life concrete things.

Pat Millea [00:43:38]:
Mhmm.

Kenna Millea [00:43:39]:
So if you are feeling up for it, my love, I would love to let's turn the tables and I'll play

Pat Millea [00:43:44]:
I know I don't sound up for anything

Pat Millea [00:43:46]:
but I'm up for this. Let's go. Yeah.

Kenna Millea [00:43:47]:
So I'm gonna give you a a situation. Right? I'm gonna give you a situation and I'm gonna ask you to give us a response through the lens of negative sentiment override and a response through positive sentiment override. We're gonna really look at the fact that the same objective concrete data instance experience happening can really be interpreted different ways Yeah. And just what a difference that makes. Okay?

Pat Millea [00:44:14]:
Okay. Okay.

Kenna Millea [00:44:17]:
So you come home from work while your spouse, that would be me, is putting the children to bed upstairs.

Pat Millea [00:44:24]:
Mhmm.

Kenna Millea [00:44:25]:
And the living spaces are a disaster. Mhmm. What is a negative sentiment override response? What is the story inside your head coming through negative that negative lens?

Pat Millea [00:44:36]:
Yep. So the story in my head if I was in a negative override place would be what in the world has she been doing all day I mean all she had to do was feed and deal with seven children and get them all to bed on time come on what what what how lazy could you possibly be I mean if the house looks like this she was probably just scrolling on her phone. She always does that you know that it just and then I would have two options. I could I could go upstairs and just like silently resentfully help with the bedtime process or I could, with a good healthy dose of a martyr complex just start cleaning up the living room but not joyfully. Right. Not because

Kenna Millea [00:45:21]:
Hopefully with a lot of huffing and puffing. Correct. Right. Monosyllabic muttering.

Pat Millea [00:45:24]:
Not as a sacrificial gift but it's like I have to do everything now and that was gotcha. So negative.

Kenna Millea [00:45:33]:
Okay.

Pat Millea [00:45:33]:
Positive sentiment override would be to look at that situation be like, oh my gosh it must have been a really hard afternoon and she's not lazy. She does not just waste her time and ignore our children and the living space while she scrolls on her phone. She's not the kind of person who just doesn't make dinner for children and goes and takes a nap instead like it must have been a really crazy day. I'm wondering I should go check-in with her and see how I can jump right in and help kind of alleviate some of the craziness of the day.

Kenna Millea [00:46:07]:
I would also say let's go positive 2.0. Yeah. Would be something like you walk in, you see it, and you go, oh, man. I know what it's like to solo parent.

Pat Millea [00:46:16]:
Sure.

Kenna Millea [00:46:17]:
You know, like, I know what it's like to only be able to attend

Pat Millea [00:46:20]:
I've had days like this.

Kenna Millea [00:46:21]:
Dealing with the humans and all the stuff you kind of go, I'll deal with that when they are tucked into their beds Yes. That's right.

Pat Millea [00:46:26]:
And that's right.

Kenna Millea [00:46:27]:
Okay. Second scenario.

Pat Millea [00:46:28]:
The toys on the ground are not screaming at me. Right. First things first.

Kenna Millea [00:46:32]:
Don't need to be fed, bathed. Your spouse doesn't respond to your texts during the workday.

Pat Millea [00:46:39]:
Oh.

Kenna Millea [00:46:39]:
This is a very common one.

Pat Millea [00:46:40]:
I feel targeted right now.

Kenna Millea [00:46:42]:
Really?

Pat Millea [00:46:43]:
No. Not really. Oh, okay. A little bit. What was the situation the other day when you had sent me, like, eight texts in a row?

Kenna Millea [00:46:48]:
Oh, my gosh.

Pat Millea [00:46:49]:
And what was the

Kenna Millea [00:46:51]:
I don't even remember what was going on.

Pat Millea [00:46:52]:
What was I doing? I was

Kenna Millea [00:46:53]:
I think it was birthday related stuff.

Pat Millea [00:46:54]:
I was home or something, but it was, like, eight to 10 texts in a five hour period. And then the the salt in the wound was that when I did have time to sit down for five seconds that day, the one text that I responded to was the one with, like, my extended family on the text as well. So you knew that I was on my phone, but not responding to the person.

Kenna Millea [00:47:13]:
It was like but it was like a goofy funny text. You sent, like, a meme or a GIF. You, like, send something funny lighthearted. And I was like, Rome is burning, and we have 55 things to get done before the birthday party. Yeah. That was that was I don't even remember where I was negative, positive. I'm not sure what landed.

Kenna Millea [00:47:30]:
I don't even know. Okay. So what's your what are your scenarios?

Pat Millea [00:47:32]:
What are the responses you have? So, the so the negative response would be, well they they never think about me when I'm not around she she's just thrilled to be at work because she doesn't have to deal with any of this annoying family stuff that's where she really is happy and I and the children are just a frustration and an inconvenience for her and clearly because she has left me on red for eight hours, she doesn't care enough to just let me know that she is still alive.

Kenna Millea [00:48:04]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Pat Millea [00:48:06]:
The positive override would be much more like again man it must be a really busy day and I I do not find her to be the kind of person who just willfully ignores me because she thinks I'm not important I find her to be the kind of person who is busy oftentimes and is good at being present to the things that are right in front of her so yeah this is none of this

Kenna Millea [00:48:30]:
I like that I like that story

Pat Millea [00:48:31]:
yeah right see none of this is like emergency room type stuff if it were I would call

Kenna Millea [00:48:35]:
I would call yeah

Pat Millea [00:48:36]:
make sure that she talked to me Totally. In the meantime, I'm gonna let her do what she has to do. We will deal with this stuff when we both have time. Yeah.

Kenna Millea [00:48:45]:
Yeah. Okay. Final one. Oh, this is a funny one. Your child makes breakfast in bed for you. What's a negative read on that?

Pat Millea [00:48:55]:
My first thought was there's no negative read? That's wonderful. And then I immediately realized what the negative read is because I am very comfortable with this negative read. And the negative read is, Dear sweet Mary, what does the kitchen look like right now? Like, if if this breakfast on my plate looks like this, I can't begin to fathom what the kitchen looks like. Yeah. There's like probably a milk carton sideways in the fridge that's open.

Kenna Millea [00:49:21]:
Pouring

Pat Millea [00:49:21]:
Both the fridge and the ice cream and the milk carton are open. It's pouring out onto the floor as we speak. There's burning toast in the toaster that's threatening to burn down the house. The eggs have blackened the pan and now we have to get an entirely new pan. There's flour spilled all over the floor and they didn't even bake anything from scratch. They just wanted to play with with with flour. That's the negative sentiment override. The positive sentiment override is how generous and thoughtful this sweet child is.

Pat Millea [00:49:49]:
This child that I do love so much, even when they make a mess, that is wildly inconvenient. And if a messy kitchen is the content, if that's what's happening downstairs right now, if a messy kitchen is the price that I have to pay for receiving the love of my child then so be it we can figure that out and maybe it's something that the kid and I clean up together maybe it's not just my job that I have to do all by myself but that is a minor inconvenience in comparison with the kind of relationship that I want with my child in the first place. Yeah.

Kenna Millea [00:50:22]:
I love that. I I love that you haven't denied yourself the reality that like there's a piece of this that's inconvenient. Yeah. But it doesn't doesn't stop you, doesn't prevent you from being able to, like, squeeze the goodness out of

Pat Millea [00:50:33]:
That specific example is a very intense do as I say not as I do one, by the way. Because of all those three examples, that's the one that that good old Pat Millea struggles with pretty frequently is wondering why the children make such a mess of our house so often.

Kenna Millea [00:50:48]:
So quickly. Yeah. That's great. So so with that, right, we're we're in this territory of concretizing this concept. Let's talk about our challenge by choice for this episode.

Pat Millea [00:50:57]:
Yeah, girl.

Kenna Millea [00:50:58]:
So if you are listening to this and you are doing a little self assessment and finding like, hey, I'm in a really good spot. Like, I I am in the habit of helping myself move out of that, you know, negative place kind of reading things through your glasses, let's say, and getting back to seeing the goodness, seeing the worth, seeing the value of just a good intention. Right? It's the thought that counts kind of place. Then congratulations, ding ding ding, you can pass go collect $200 and just keep going on. If any of this is like a little bit incriminating and you are finding like I am that there might be certain relationships or certain just perspectives and attitudes that you hold toward all of your relationships, welcome. Join us here by the fire. You are in good company, of of humans who are still undergoing this process of change. And my challenge, my choice to you would be to take some time to reflect, yeah, particularly of those things that we said can help move you toward positive sentiment override.

Kenna Millea [00:52:02]:
What might be your next step? Might it be speaking with your spouse or making some moves, you know, with your children, with the people in your life of more love language kind of activity going on? Might it be that there is a hurt? There is a resentment that continues to grow despite your best efforts to shove it in the closet that needs to be brought out, that you need maybe to enlist some support, to be able to digest and to process and to heal from? Might it be that you need to be more reflective and recognize the goodness of these folks making a prayer to the Lord? God, let me see them as you see them. Let me see their goodness. Let me see their beauty. Let me see the delight that you find in them and help me to share in that with you. Those are some really concrete ways to do it. It's gonna take you reflecting on your own life. Right? We can't do that part for you. So roll up your sleeves.

Kenna Millea [00:52:52]:
The Easter season is a great time to say, Lord, I seek you in this joyful life giving time, in this time of promise and hope. That is our challenge by choice today.

Pat Millea [00:53:03]:
Love it.

Kenna Millea [00:53:04]:
No small task and I am confident could be a really life giving, maybe even life changing one, relationship changing one. Again, this this stuff should not be underestimated and discounted just because it sounds easy on the surface.

Pat Millea [00:53:19]:
And it's not just our effort takes a significant amount of grace to move in that direction. Could you wrap us up in prayer right here so we can invite that grace in?

Kenna Millea [00:53:28]:
In the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Amen. Lord of life and love, we welcome you into our lives, into our hearts. We ask you to dwell in the spaces between us and those that we encounter in our life, especially those that have been entrusted to us to to lead them to you, that we know that part of what draws souls to you, Lord, is that we we reflect the joy, the gratitude, the freedom, the authenticity that comes with being a disciple of yours, and and being in a place of seeing others dignity is part of how we do that, God. So can you help us to see where we are, yeah, finding it difficult to live in this way? Attend to us there, lord. We we invite you in. We beg you to be there, so that we can be healed, so that we can reflect to others, what beauty, what goodness they bring to our lives, and we place this all in your hands Lord and trusting this to you. Amen.

Kenna Millea [00:54:34]:
In the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Amen.

Pat Millea [00:54:38]:
Amen. Thank you my dear for all of your insight, for your wisdom, for your love and I love in positive sentiment override with you as much as possible.

Kenna Millea [00:54:46]:
Woo hoo.

Pat Millea [00:54:47]:
Thank you dear listeners for tuning in, for listening and mostly for putting up with my voice. If you've made it this far, boy are you committed. And, it's really a testament to how great you are, my dear, if they can put up with this voice during the entire episode. So thank you for that. It's all good. We would love to hear from you. You can, check us out at thiswholelifepodcast.com. Let us know your thoughts about positive sentiment override or just give us your candy rankings, whatever you wanna do.

Pat Millea [00:55:12]:
You can follow us on Instagram and on Facebook @thiswholelifepodcast and we will continue building up this community of supporters so you can support the work of This Whole Life at ko-fi.com/thiswholelife or the link in our Instagram bio. Friends, God bless you. Get out there. Think the best of each other, and we'll see you next time.

Kenna Millea [00:55:41]:
This Whole Life is a production of the Martin Center for Integration. Visit us online at thiswholelifepodcast.com. Alright.